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#591 · January 15, 2023, 6:40 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 15, 2023, 6:40 am
Quote from John Freeman on January 15, 2023, 5:45 am
(for future reference: when I write something privately I prefer to keep it private or been asked before sharing it. But it's all good, no biggie. It's a very small thing 🙂 ).
OK, cool
Just to be clear about this:
There are specific reasons why I shared it:
Keeping communication in sync among all
1:1s throw everything out of sync.
A public forum cannot function well if there are parallel 1:1s among the participants.
In this case, taking a break is important information, and I don't think I should be the only one to be communicated that -the way I see it: either all, or none-.
Respecting the community equally
The way I see it, it's about respecting the community.
I don't want to be singled out above others for what concerns the community.
Me-only communication sub-communicates that this forum is about me first of all, and I don't want it to be that way.
There is one more moderator, and there are more people directly and indirectly involved, and I believe it's fair if they all know.
Puts me in a high effort and difficult spot I don't want to be in
Finally, it puts me in a difficult spot I'd rather not be in:
Now I have info that concerns everyone, and it's up to me to do something about it -that's like adding a to-do on my to-do list-.
Personally, I know I should share it for the reasons above.
But it's still a lose-lose for me.
I have to be tactful, only share part of it, and hope that "people will understand what I'm doing" and that "John will not be bothered by it" and that both parties will see the good intention behind it despite everything being very unclear.
It's not a position I want to be in.
So, in general: I want forum-related communication to be in the forum (as for everything, some exceptions always apply of course, and I sometimes consult with Ali or some others to get second opinions).
As you say, no biggies, a small thing.
Good to clarify it and thank you for that opportunity.

Quote from John Freeman on January 15, 2023, 5:45 am
(for future reference: when I write something privately I prefer to keep it private or been asked before sharing it. But it's all good, no biggie. It's a very small thing 🙂 ).

OK, cool

Just to be clear about this:

There are specific reasons why I shared it:

Keeping communication in sync among all

1:1s throw everything out of sync.

A public forum cannot function well if there are parallel 1:1s among the participants.

In this case, taking a break is important information, and I don't think I should be the only one to be communicated that -the way I see it: either all, or none-.

Respecting the community equally

The way I see it, it's about respecting the community.

I don't want to be singled out above others for what concerns the community.

Me-only communication sub-communicates that this forum is about me first of all, and I don't want it to be that way.

There is one more moderator, and there are more people directly and indirectly involved, and I believe it's fair if they all know.

Puts me in a high effort and difficult spot I don't want to be in

Finally, it puts me in a difficult spot I'd rather not be in:

Now I have info that concerns everyone, and it's up to me to do something about it -that's like adding a to-do on my to-do list-.

Personally, I know I should share it for the reasons above.

But it's still a lose-lose for me.

I have to be tactful, only share part of it, and hope that "people will understand what I'm doing" and that "John will not be bothered by it" and that both parties will see the good intention behind it despite everything being very unclear.

It's not a position I want to be in.

So, in general: I want forum-related communication to be in the forum (as for everything, some exceptions always apply of course, and I sometimes consult with Ali or some others to get second opinions).

As you say, no biggies, a small thing.

Good to clarify it and thank you for that opportunity.

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#592 · January 15, 2023, 2:07 pm

Thank you very much, guys. I'm more than glad to contribute to the community I love so much!

Lucio, thank you for the advice on remaining focused on the main issue and the basics. I'm looking forward for the new lessons! I have been gaslighted myself in one instance, and while at the time I was power aware enough to know something was very off, I didn't know it until you pointed it out. I found that Bel's thread on the topic was very enlightening, and a lesson in PU about how to deal with gaslighting will also be of great value.

John, that's great news you are staying! While I respected your decision to take a break, I knew the community would suffer a lot from it during the time you'd be off. You are a much cherished member here, man, and I enjoy exchanging with you!

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#593 · January 15, 2023, 10:33 pm

Thank you very much, Kavalier. It means a lot to me! I respect and like you very much.

I learn a lot from your posts and your attitude is inspiring for me so I return you the compliment. :)

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#594 · January 16, 2023, 2:11 pm

Hello Lucio and Ali,

in case it wasn’t clear I’ll answer you as soon as possible.

#595 · January 16, 2023, 3:06 pm

Hi John,

Thank you for the thought, but there's no answer needed.

Any further posts on this topic would be value-taking for the mods and community due to the extra time and effort it would demand after all the facts and clarifications have already been laid out.

So, Lucio and I would prefer to close this discussion here (and I spoke to him about this before publishing this post, so we're both on the same page).

Edit:
Added a note.

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#596 · January 16, 2023, 3:49 pm

Hello Ali,

Alright, I thought an answer was expected of me.

I want to tell you that I will read carefully your answers, take the lessons from them and take the time to reflect. I will also study more assertiveness (PU and other resources). I’m currently reading the TPM dictionary to learn more concepts to avoid this kind of situations in the future. In short I am doing my homework internally and in terms of knowledge.

Based on Kavalier’s answer in the future before asking right away when I don’t understand something I will take more time to think about it. I am aware of my social debt and will make sure for all involved to repair and compensate to the best of my ability. I will make sure to make it win-win. In short I’m working on all of this, it’s the minimum and what I owe. I won’t write any further.

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#597 · January 17, 2023, 2:48 pm

Quote from Kavalier on January 14, 2023, 5:44 pm
To answer your question, I felt that Bel's post was a mostly a self-reflection on his own posture in the beginning of his activity in the forum, and why that might have invited power moves. In my interpretation, he was basically saying that if one presents oneself as power down, people (even if subconsciously) will tend to treat one as low status.
He started off by accepting your apologies, but at the time he was writing about "social climbing", he was not referring to you in particular, but concluding that this was a human pattern of behaviour, and, for that reason, people would rather present oneself as already being high-power (a similar conclusion to Lucio's feedback to Emily above). I thought Bel's reflection and advice was great.
So, Bel was not reopening the discussion. He was summing up his "lesson learned", giving value to everyone, and at the same time he was taking responsibility for the power moves he received from anybody. (By the way, sorry, Bel, if I have social climbed on you anytime in the past. If you remember any instance, pointing it out would help me address issues in my own pattern of speech I might not be aware of) He also started and ended saying things were cool (closing the loop, but not unilaterally so, because one end was already closed).

Thank you for this, Kavalier.

It’s really a double thumbs up post.

As to your question, you never did any of the sort.

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#598 · January 28, 2023, 4:34 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 28, 2023, 4:34 am
Hello @illystorm
Quick feedback on this one.
The post was:
Quote from Illystorm on January 27, 2023, 11:59 am
Hello John, amazing story and advice seriously
Do you have any advice against being ignored by others?
What is a good way to stop getting ignored?
That felt a bit off to me.
Some reasons why:
Too abrupt transition feels like it was an excuse to ask a question: the transition between commenting on John's story and asking for advice was very abrupt.
The comment also added limited value, so it feels like one butted in with a random "cool story" comment and to plug what one really wanted
Off topic, the request about "how to handle being ignored" is very off-topic. That always contributes to making something feel "off". And especially so for people who care about keeping things organized (this forum tends to prefer good forum organization. That's important because to gain friends, status, and respect, it's important to know how to operate in your environment)
Opens a new thread John has all interests NOT to pursue (Mind the WIIFT & alignment of interests): we can fairly guess that John's interest is to stay on topic.
On his journal, you can (fairly) expect him to prefer to keep it about what he cares about to discuss, and to get feedback on what he cares about.
If you go off-topic, he'll get less feedback on his events, and we can expect that John fairly prefers avoiding that).
In brief: since he has nothing to gain from going off-topic, and everything to lose, you put him in a situation to ignore it.
It's on John's journal so it follows host/guest dynamics: since it's John's journal, the expectation for John is that people stick to his topics.
Then after that was a quote post and reply.
The issue there is that it was from a very old post.
The time issue tells you that, most likely, most people forgot everything about that old question/topic.
Your post is a great post, very interesting.
But just because it resumes an old thread most people forgot about, it has a high chance of feeling off and off-topic (even if it's a good post).
John also moved on from that, so you can expect he may have little interest to resume an old issue, and much more interest in pursuing current events (which are always most interesting to people).
So look what John had to do:
Quote from John Freeman on January 27, 2023, 8:00 pm
Definitely Illystorm! (<---- Quick bridge into what he truly wants to talk about: current events that are on topic. What you really gotta read in that is that it was a very quick mention just to power-protect enough and avoid a total ignore)
Regarding your question, I think it’s better if you start a new thread with more details. (<---- True, and gives you a good advice. But what you truly gotta read in that from a social and power dynamics point of view is that it was a polite brush off to avoid a total ignore)
Incidentally, this feedback answers much of your question on how to avoid being ignored.
And it starts with contributions that follow the foundational dynamics of social exchanges and power dynamics (see above) and that are on point, on topic, relevant, and following the (non-written) rules the group/community seems to prefer (see the forum guidelines for some of those).
As usual:
Check out the beginning of this thread for why we use it.
It's not criticism, but (potentially helpful) feedback for self-development and for improving social skills and social intelligence.

Hello @illystorm

Quick feedback on this one.

The post was:

Quote from Illystorm on January 27, 2023, 11:59 am
Hello John, amazing story and advice seriously
Do you have any advice against being ignored by others?
What is a good way to stop getting ignored?

That felt a bit off to me.

Some reasons why:

Too abrupt transition feels like it was an excuse to ask a question: the transition between commenting on John's story and asking for advice was very abrupt.
The comment also added limited value, so it feels like one butted in with a random "cool story" comment and to plug what one really wanted
Off topic, the request about "how to handle being ignored" is very off-topic. That always contributes to making something feel "off". And especially so for people who care about keeping things organized (this forum tends to prefer good forum organization. That's important because to gain friends, status, and respect, it's important to know how to operate in your environment)
Opens a new thread John has all interests NOT to pursue (Mind the WIIFT & alignment of interests): we can fairly guess that John's interest is to stay on topic.
On his journal, you can (fairly) expect him to prefer to keep it about what he cares about to discuss, and to get feedback on what he cares about.
If you go off-topic, he'll get less feedback on his events, and we can expect that John fairly prefers avoiding that).
In brief: since he has nothing to gain from going off-topic, and everything to lose, you put him in a situation to ignore it.
It's on John's journal so it follows host/guest dynamics: since it's John's journal, the expectation for John is that people stick to his topics.

Then after that was a quote post and reply.

The issue there is that it was from a very old post.

The time issue tells you that, most likely, most people forgot everything about that old question/topic.

Your post is a great post, very interesting.

But just because it resumes an old thread most people forgot about, it has a high chance of feeling off and off-topic (even if it's a good post).

John also moved on from that, so you can expect he may have little interest to resume an old issue, and much more interest in pursuing current events (which are always most interesting to people).

So look what John had to do:

Quote from John Freeman on January 27, 2023, 8:00 pm
Definitely Illystorm! (<---- Quick bridge into what he truly wants to talk about: current events that are on topic. What you really gotta read in that is that it was a very quick mention just to power-protect enough and avoid a total ignore)
Regarding your question, I think it’s better if you start a new thread with more details. (<---- True, and gives you a good advice. But what you truly gotta read in that from a social and power dynamics point of view is that it was a polite brush off to avoid a total ignore)

Incidentally, this feedback answers much of your question on how to avoid being ignored.

And it starts with contributions that follow the foundational dynamics of social exchanges and power dynamics (see above) and that are on point, on topic, relevant, and following the (non-written) rules the group/community seems to prefer (see the forum guidelines for some of those).

As usual:

Check out the beginning of this thread for why we use it.

It's not criticism, but (potentially helpful) feedback for self-development and for improving social skills and social intelligence.

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#599 · January 30, 2023, 4:26 pm

Yes, to be honest I tried to delete the comment before I posted the actual in-topic reply to John's post

But I noticed that while I was able to edit/delete the pertinent comment, I wasn't able to do so anymore with the trash one

Also I know it's not really an excuse, but I suffer from depression and brain fog sometimes (still at unpredictable times, working on it with the doc to fix it)... and when I made that comment was really off game, so I apologize.

This is also one of the reasons why I joined TPM: I wish to improve my social and power intelligence in addition to fixing my neurochemical issues, to become a better person overall

Next time I will abide to the official and unofficial (social) rules, and will also do a separate post on the topic just like John Freeman advised

And thanks for the reply, Lucio.
As you said it unironically answered maybe more than 50% of the cases implied in the question.

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#600 · January 30, 2023, 4:51 pm

Thank you for being so cool about it, Illystorm!

It's absolutey all good, your post wasn't even "too bad", it just provided a good opportunity for feedback on learning and improving.

And if you keep this good attitude, I'm betting on you improving real fast.

Cheers!

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