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Getting paid from Machievellian former boss

#21 · February 8, 2022, 1:07 am

Quote from B on February 8, 2022, 1:07 am
Updating this thread: I have not received any call from my former boss, and so far I have continued to redraft my lawsuit against him. And been thinking a lot.
Anger
My anger for what he did to me makes me more likely to make mistakes, and blinds me. If I think about this as a way to get revenge, I have already lost. On the contrary, I understand that I must treat this as just getting paid for something I did, nothing less, nothing more. If he sees it as revenge, his problem.
This approach also makes it more likely that he will be the one to make mistakes. I think him avoiding replying to my mails for two years is already a mistake from the perspective of a lawsuit, and even for the bar, should the matter reach it.
Fear
I have been studying Power University and reading a lot. I feel that, the more I learn, the less I fear my former boss. While until now I have been oscillating between leaving this matter be and pursuing, I am more confident I can get paid without starting a full-out war now. And even if I should have to start a lawsuit, I am more confident I can deal with it.
What is really unique about Lucio's teachings is that he teaches us to deal with reality. Not go no contact, not surrender, not leave: deal with it. Defend yourself, and if necessary, fight for what is right.
Escalation
I have been thinking if my next step should simply consist in sending my former boss one last email stating I will sue, or if there is any intermediate step I can take to make it more likely that I will get paid without suing.
I don't want to call him, as this move would communicate I am afraid/willing to compromise. But I have been thinking about the following possible e-mail:
Dear ...,
I have still not received from You any answer, nor the fee for the work I did in 2020. I hope its payment may take place shortly since my work ended more than one year and a half ago, and thus invite you to proceed to it as soon as possible, so that we both can close this chapter within one month from now.
Lacking it, while I would prefer to avoid it in any way given our reciprocal relationship, I will not have any other choice than to send You a notice of judicial action to recover my fee.
Kind regards.
The idea would be to subcommunicate (not my willingness to negotiate, not my fear of suing, but rather) that he is in the wrong, is unjustly appropriating my work for free; and that I can deal with him as an equal now, I am not afraid: I can speak clearly, and I can even communicate my firm intention in a polite way; and will go as far as it will take to get justice.
Also, the idea would be to obtain additional proof of my good faith for a possible lawsuit (and as a defense against any move he might make in retaliation, i.e. to be able to show that anything he does after this is in fact a retaliation).
Then, if he does not pay within one month, under the bar rules I will have to send him one last email stating my intention to sue if payment is not received in 20 days.
Guys, do you think the above could have some merits, even if not in the exact above form?

Updating this thread: I have not received any call from my former boss, and so far I have continued to redraft my lawsuit against him. And been thinking a lot.

Anger

My anger for what he did to me makes me more likely to make mistakes, and blinds me. If I think about this as a way to get revenge, I have already lost. On the contrary, I understand that I must treat this as just getting paid for something I did, nothing less, nothing more. If he sees it as revenge, his problem.

This approach also makes it more likely that he will be the one to make mistakes. I think him avoiding replying to my mails for two years is already a mistake from the perspective of a lawsuit, and even for the bar, should the matter reach it.

Fear

I have been studying Power University and reading a lot. I feel that, the more I learn, the less I fear my former boss. While until now I have been oscillating between leaving this matter be and pursuing, I am more confident I can get paid without starting a full-out war now. And even if I should have to start a lawsuit, I am more confident I can deal with it.

What is really unique about Lucio's teachings is that he teaches us to deal with reality. Not go no contact, not surrender, not leave: deal with it. Defend yourself, and if necessary, fight for what is right.

Escalation

I have been thinking if my next step should simply consist in sending my former boss one last email stating I will sue, or if there is any intermediate step I can take to make it more likely that I will get paid without suing.

I don't want to call him, as this move would communicate I am afraid/willing to compromise. But I have been thinking about the following possible e-mail:

Dear ...,
I have still not received from You any answer, nor the fee for the work I did in 2020. I hope its payment may take place shortly since my work ended more than one year and a half ago, and thus invite you to proceed to it as soon as possible, so that we both can close this chapter within one month from now.
Lacking it, while I would prefer to avoid it in any way given our reciprocal relationship, I will not have any other choice than to send You a notice of judicial action to recover my fee.
Kind regards.

The idea would be to subcommunicate (not my willingness to negotiate, not my fear of suing, but rather) that he is in the wrong, is unjustly appropriating my work for free; and that I can deal with him as an equal now, I am not afraid: I can speak clearly, and I can even communicate my firm intention in a polite way; and will go as far as it will take to get justice.

Also, the idea would be to obtain additional proof of my good faith for a possible lawsuit (and as a defense against any move he might make in retaliation, i.e. to be able to show that anything he does after this is in fact a retaliation).

Then, if he does not pay within one month, under the bar rules I will have to send him one last email stating my intention to sue if payment is not received in 20 days.

Guys, do you think the above could have some merits, even if not in the exact above form?

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#22 · February 8, 2022, 5:05 pm

Nice to read about your personal empowerment, Bel!

I think the email looks good.

Maybe I'd reword:

I will not have any other choice than to send You a notice of judicial action to recover my fee.

"I will have no other choice" is good, I'd have written be "I will be forced" to make it a stronger case, but it's good as it is.

To:

I will not have any other choice than to proceed with a notice of judicial action to recover my fee.

To make it a bit more unlikely this Ahole takes it personally and decides to fight it just out of ego.

Since "send You" might feel more personal and bellicose.

I might also not mention "given our reciprocal relationship".
It wasn't a great relationship -or it evolved into a non great one- so recalling it might feel fake and only reminds him of the negative associations about that relationship.
If you want to say anything there, maybe I'd mention "being colleagues" or "working in the same field" or something like that.

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#23 · February 8, 2022, 10:28 pm

Thank you so much Lucio! I will rewrite it as you suggest and post it here before going forward.

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#24 · February 10, 2022, 10:58 am

Quote from B on February 10, 2022, 10:58 am
Ok, this is the draft where I've implemented your suggestions and also some minor additional changes:
Dear ...,
I have still not received the fee for the work I did in 2020 nor any answer from You. I hope payment may take place shortly since my work ended more than one year and a half ago, and thus invite You to proceed to it as soon as possible, so that we both can close this chapter within one month from now.
Lacking it, even if I would prefer to avoid it, I will have no other choice than to proceed with a notice of judicial action to recover my fee.
Kind regards.
I am a bit unsure whether to keep the "nor any answer from You" bit in the first sentence, as I don't want to give the impression that he can get out of this by just answering me "no" or something else.
I think I will send it (via certified e-mail as well, to not lose the trail, unless you suggest otherwise) next Monday.
While the above slows down the process a little, I understand appearing more detached makes it more likely I will get paid without suing.
Then if he calls me, I will pick up and keep the warm but firm profile you suggested (i.e. "how are you? I'm just looking to get paid... can you do that? Yes, I'm just looking to get paid... Ok bye" [broken record]). If he is angry or condescending, I will keep going as if I had not heard his tone.
If he threatens me on the phone or anything else, I won't say anything on the phone and also go on as if I had not heard him (or maybe even thread-expand a bit to make him speak more), but then once the call is over I will consider whether to bring him in front of the bar, either then or in the future.
Possible interpretation of his behavior, to better orient mine
I think the reason he is reluctant to call and prefers to speak in his office is precisely that he fears someone bringing him in front of the bar with proof of what he said on the phone.
There is case law here that says that, as an exception to the general bar rule, a lawyer is in fact allowed to record a conversation with a colleague if he fears threats or other crimes will be made on the phone. I think he either knows this, or someone has already done it to him.
I am not sure, but I am starting to think this was the reason why in the last phase of our relationship he did not want to speak on the phone with me any more (he always asked me to go to his office). This would also explain why now he tried to have me called on his behalf by my former other friend, not directly.
Also, when three years ago I came back to his office to hear his proposal to get me back, I remember he mentioned something to the effect of wanting to "expand his activity" into "something unrelated to law".
It didn't make sense to me at the time. But now that I think of it together with everything else, it is possible he has had complaints to the bar made already against him, and/or that his past wrongdoings are catching up to him. I'm speculating here, of course.
So I wonder if/how these possibilities could orient my behavior here to be more effective in recovering this money. For now, I don't think I should write of complaining to the bar against him, as that would be the nuclear move. Also, I think me starting a lawsuit will give me definitive proof of his behavior, and allow me to complain to the bar in any case in the future. And he knows it.
He faces an additional difficulty here: there is case law that basically says that a lawyer cannot defend against good faith vs a fellow lawyer in a lawsuit, as this is a breach of the bar rules that govern relationships between colleagues. So if I start a lawsuit and he defends aggressively, I could probably bring him in front of the bar for that alone.

Ok, this is the draft where I've implemented your suggestions and also some minor additional changes:

Dear ...,
I have still not received the fee for the work I did in 2020 nor any answer from You. I hope payment may take place shortly since my work ended more than one year and a half ago, and thus invite You to proceed to it as soon as possible, so that we both can close this chapter within one month from now.
Lacking it, even if I would prefer to avoid it, I will have no other choice than to proceed with a notice of judicial action to recover my fee.
Kind regards.

I am a bit unsure whether to keep the "nor any answer from You" bit in the first sentence, as I don't want to give the impression that he can get out of this by just answering me "no" or something else.

I think I will send it (via certified e-mail as well, to not lose the trail, unless you suggest otherwise) next Monday.

While the above slows down the process a little, I understand appearing more detached makes it more likely I will get paid without suing.

Then if he calls me, I will pick up and keep the warm but firm profile you suggested (i.e. "how are you? I'm just looking to get paid... can you do that? Yes, I'm just looking to get paid... Ok bye" [broken record]). If he is angry or condescending, I will keep going as if I had not heard his tone.

If he threatens me on the phone or anything else, I won't say anything on the phone and also go on as if I had not heard him (or maybe even thread-expand a bit to make him speak more), but then once the call is over I will consider whether to bring him in front of the bar, either then or in the future.

Possible interpretation of his behavior, to better orient mine

I think the reason he is reluctant to call and prefers to speak in his office is precisely that he fears someone bringing him in front of the bar with proof of what he said on the phone.

There is case law here that says that, as an exception to the general bar rule, a lawyer is in fact allowed to record a conversation with a colleague if he fears threats or other crimes will be made on the phone. I think he either knows this, or someone has already done it to him.

I am not sure, but I am starting to think this was the reason why in the last phase of our relationship he did not want to speak on the phone with me any more (he always asked me to go to his office). This would also explain why now he tried to have me called on his behalf by my former other friend, not directly.

Also, when three years ago I came back to his office to hear his proposal to get me back, I remember he mentioned something to the effect of wanting to "expand his activity" into "something unrelated to law".

It didn't make sense to me at the time. But now that I think of it together with everything else, it is possible he has had complaints to the bar made already against him, and/or that his past wrongdoings are catching up to him. I'm speculating here, of course.

So I wonder if/how these possibilities could orient my behavior here to be more effective in recovering this money. For now, I don't think I should write of complaining to the bar against him, as that would be the nuclear move. Also, I think me starting a lawsuit will give me definitive proof of his behavior, and allow me to complain to the bar in any case in the future. And he knows it.

He faces an additional difficulty here: there is case law that basically says that a lawyer cannot defend against good faith vs a fellow lawyer in a lawsuit, as this is a breach of the bar rules that govern relationships between colleagues. So if I start a lawsuit and he defends aggressively, I could probably bring him in front of the bar for that alone.

#25 · February 10, 2022, 12:10 pm

Quote from B on February 10, 2022, 12:10 pm
On whether to proceed in two more steps, or just one
Would this following draft be better? Here I am merging the last step (i.e. announcing a lawsuit) with the above communication, to shorten the time-frame and close this matter asap:
Dear ...,
I have still not received the fee for the work I did in 2020 nor any answer from You. I hope payment may take place shortly since my work ended more than one year and a half ago, and thus invite You to proceed to it as soon as possible, so that we both can close this chapter within one month from now.
Lacking it, even if I would prefer to avoid it, pursuant to article ... of the bar code I inform You already that, missing payment within the above-mentioned term, I will proceed in court to recover the fees under the attached fee notice.
Kind regards.
I am not sure about this solution.
Or I could just make the final push with full force now:
Dear ...,
against my wishes, since I have not yet received the fees for the work I did in 2020, pursuant to article ... of the bar code please be informed that, missing payment within 15 days, I will proceed in court against You to recover the fees under the attached fee notice.
Kind regards.
After all we are speaking about a person who only understands consequences.
My take on the possible benefits (and drawbacks) of the two-step solution
I will try to answer my own question.
Benefits:
while I think he will possibly pay only after the final step in any case (i.e. just before the lawsuit), I also think me first sending him the communication in my post above (i.e. the one where I say "I will have no other choice than to proceed with a notice of judicial action") will make it more likely that he will actually pay when I send him the final notice;
also, the intermediate communication may work in my favor if he ever tries to smear me with other law firms in the future: I could even show it to them to prove I was the wronged party here, and I tried everything possible to get redress before suing.
Drawbacks
So the longer time-frame of the two-step solution could work in my favor, even if I have to endure the following drawbacks:
longer discomfort and more time to close this
him trying to possibly continue to threaten and manipulate me
my giving him more time to prepare for a lawsuit (because I am communicating my intention now instead of at the last moment).

On whether to proceed in two more steps, or just one

Would this following draft be better? Here I am merging the last step (i.e. announcing a lawsuit) with the above communication, to shorten the time-frame and close this matter asap:

Dear ...,
I have still not received the fee for the work I did in 2020 nor any answer from You. I hope payment may take place shortly since my work ended more than one year and a half ago, and thus invite You to proceed to it as soon as possible, so that we both can close this chapter within one month from now.
Lacking it, even if I would prefer to avoid it, pursuant to article ... of the bar code I inform You already that, missing payment within the above-mentioned term, I will proceed in court to recover the fees under the attached fee notice.
Kind regards.

I am not sure about this solution.

Or I could just make the final push with full force now:

Dear ...,
against my wishes, since I have not yet received the fees for the work I did in 2020, pursuant to article ... of the bar code please be informed that, missing payment within 15 days, I will proceed in court against You to recover the fees under the attached fee notice.
Kind regards.

After all we are speaking about a person who only understands consequences.

My take on the possible benefits (and drawbacks) of the two-step solution

I will try to answer my own question.

Benefits:

while I think he will possibly pay only after the final step in any case (i.e. just before the lawsuit), I also think me first sending him the communication in my post above (i.e. the one where I say "I will have no other choice than to proceed with a notice of judicial action") will make it more likely that he will actually pay when I send him the final notice;
also, the intermediate communication may work in my favor if he ever tries to smear me with other law firms in the future: I could even show it to them to prove I was the wronged party here, and I tried everything possible to get redress before suing.

Drawbacks

So the longer time-frame of the two-step solution could work in my favor, even if I have to endure the following drawbacks:

longer discomfort and more time to close this
him trying to possibly continue to threaten and manipulate me
my giving him more time to prepare for a lawsuit (because I am communicating my intention now instead of at the last moment).

#26 · February 10, 2022, 4:58 pm

So I am leaning on sending the first draft, while shortening the timeframe to 15 days so as to keep the total timeframe to 1 more month:

Dear ...,
I have still not received the fee for the work I did in 2020 nor any answer from You. I hope payment may take place shortly since my work ended more than one year and a half ago, and thus invite You to proceed to it as soon as possible, so that we both can close this chapter within 15 days from now.
Lacking it, even if I would prefer to avoid it, I will have no other choice than to proceed with a notice of judicial action to recover my fee.
Kind regards.

#27 · February 11, 2022, 8:48 pm

Hey Bel,

I only read the last version, but seems solid.

Rather than "since my work... " I'd rephrase to:

My work ended in XXX, (optional: 1.5 years ago), so I hope payment can process soon.

It's more matter of fact, less dramatic.
the first version has a slight blaming connotation -which is fully deserved of course, but it may increase escalation odds by 1-2% and we'd rather end things smoothly and quickly-.

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#28 · February 11, 2022, 10:29 pm

Thank you Lucio.

I will write it as you suggest and also probably remove for now the threat of judicial action, which is implicit in any case in the 15 day timeframe.

You are at a different level, every time I read one of your posts I think "Damn, that's exactly right! But also impossible for me to understand it alone right now!". I would have needed at least one year to reach the same conclusion on this without your advice.

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#29 · February 11, 2022, 11:34 pm

Thank you for the kind words, Bel, I also think you're at a great level actually, and taking strides forward as well.

I think you had many of the skills already in you, and many of the attitudes ready to get unleashed.

And as for the email, I agree with you and like it even more now: if the judicial action is implicit, then might as well leave it out.

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#30 · February 14, 2022, 10:51 am

Guys, update!

I have not sent anything yet, but this morning received this text message from my former boss (that I had unblocked as suggested by Lucio):

Him: Hi! Let's meet when you wish for things that interest you. I take the occasion to make you note that I did not receive not even a telegram of sympathy for the death of my father. But I want to believe this derived from the fact that you did not have knowledge of this before now. I will wait for news from you.

What a nasty message. Sent on purpose on Valentine's day. These people all use the same tacticts btw.

Possible reply:

Me: Hi, it's good to hear from you. Much sympathy for the tragic event. We will gladly meet in the future; in the meantime can you please have my invoice processed? I hope payment of this work that ended in June 2020 can take place shortly, so that we can both close this chapter within 15 days from now. Kind regards.

Breakdown of the reasoning behind it:

Me: Hi, it's good to hear from you (you are the one who had to communicate here). Much sympathy for the tragic event (zero % investment technique). We will gladly meet in the future (never); in the meantime can you please have my invoice processed? (push) I hope payment of this work that ended in June 2020 can take place shortly, so that we can both close this chapter within 15 days from now (you are late, you have only 15 days). Kind regards (I hope we never speak again).

Do you think it could fly?

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