Quote from B on February 14, 2022, 2:33 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 14, 2022, 12:33 pm

You know, when people here write about someone who's wronged them, or manipulated them, I tend to believe them -the simple fact they're in TPM says good things, from my point of view-.
Yet, it's always good to keep in the back of your mind that you don't know the full story and you can't be 100% of where most of the blame truly rests.

However, when I saw this message he sent you, it was an immediate bang -a red level power move that screams "snake"-.

Thanks for the trust, Lucio :)

Seriously, I myself would have not believed that people like this could exist, had I not seen it personally.

Unfortunately I experienced this constantly for 10 years of my life, and I was totally unaware of what was going on then.

My feedback:

• Hi, it's good to hear from you = either remove, or remove "it's". the idea is "the shorter it is, the more it's obvious that it's just social convention". Or match his style with "hi!".
  Your idea of framing him as having to contact you is great, but I didn't feel this communicated that. If you want to communicate that, then you should make it more obvious with a "finally", or rephrase to "it's good to get a reply from you"
• Much sympathy for the tragic event = it's good. Optional, and what I'd personally go for is "it sucks to hear", or "it sucks to hear, such family losses are always painful".
• We will gladly meet in the future = write "can", or "might" rather than "will". Will is disingenuous and it also boxes you into something you don't (necessarily) want. Plus, this tacitly accepts his offer. If he wants to meet, don't give it to him, let him chase you and ask for that
• In the meantime: Nope. This hides -and binds- the payment behind the "meet" and opens the door to "never pay until we meet" or "first, let's meet and talk". Not in a legal way maybe, but in a social exchange way that he can capitalize on. Don't give him that open, don't get dragged into having to defend and deny a meeting.
  Bridge it with "about" or a direct "what's most relevant right now is my invoice".
• can you please have my invoice processed? Yes to the push
• I hope payment of this work that ended in June 2020 can take place shortly: unless you're doing it for legal reason, in which case ego for it, skip it. It's too high investment for a text
• so that we can both close this chapter within 15 days from now: good

Thank you so much Lucio, this is really really helpful.

Dealing with this person is the most difficult thing I have ever done in my entire life.

So the new draft text message to answer would be this:

Me: Hi X. It is terrible to hear this news, will you please receive my deepest sympathy. As concerns the fee notice for my 2020 work: can you please have it processed? I hope payment can take place shortly, so that we can both close this chapter within 15 days. Kind regards.

Would the above be acceptable? It could get in front of a Judge in a lawsuit and I want to appear beyond reproach.

Also, I have removed any reference to meeting, as this is one point that is absolutely clear in my mind: there is no way whatsoever I am meeting this person face to face ever again in my life. I prefer to just sue if that is the only alternative.

I would send the answer in one or two days, not today. I need time to think and ask for your help here, and I understand appearing disinterested works in my favor.

If he pushes to meet after the message above, I would just answer:

Me: Unfortunately I am too busy. I thus await payment of my fee notice as discussed.

One personal note: I understand full well this situation is much more difficult than the other one with my female colleague: they are on totally different levels.

But I also feel a bit more in control now, which is proof that what I learned from you already made a serious difference, at least in my attitude.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 14, 2022, 7:32 pm

Yes, I like the new draft more.

And also the approach to possible meeting invites.

Quote from B on February 14, 2022, 8:12 pm

Thank you very much Lucio, your help is invaluable, and all the more here.

I will mull it over some more in the next 1-2 days before sending.

My feeling is that in sending me his text he is betting on a mistake on my part. He is trying to guilt-trip, but he is too obvious: it feels like he wanted to either obtain my full submission, or my overreaction.

Also, I sensed a change in tone between your first suggestions on this thread and your feedback above, which was much much stronger.

If I answer firmly but politely, and this exchange gets in front of a Judge, the simple fact that he sent me this message will probably work against him. In a way, not fully countering his tone shows that I am the wronged one here, not him. So in redrafting the text as you suggested I tried to balance between countering his nasty moves, and showing I am polite while he isn't.

So to me his text seems also proof that he is starting to feel "cornered", and is trying to get out in any way he can. He probably started realizing that not answering my e-mails for a prolonged period of time was putting him under a bad light.

It would be good also for learning purposes to be able to deal with him face to face, but I don't think I am at that level yet.

Btw, I want to add that, my bad joke above aside, I 100% agree with you on this, especially after realizing how good manipulative people are in painting themselves as victims:

Yet, it's always good to keep in the back of your mind that you don't know the full story and you can't be 100% of where most of the blame truly rests.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 14, 2022, 8:44 pm

The Bel he knows is 99% based on a past Bel.

A past Bel who was less aware, more passive, and easier to push around.

He has very little data and experience with the new empowered Bel, so he's probably stuck with that un-updated mental representation.

Strong of those past easy wins, he came out swinging probably to push you on the defensive. And then dangled the tip of a carrot hoping you'd start reaching for it -and the moment you'd reach for it, the power would swing in his side-.

He might have miscalculated though and not taken into account that:

1. You're higher power for the simple fact of not working for him anymore
2. Smart and driven is a deadly combo and those people can grow by leaps and bounds
3. The odds were good on your favor since people are much more likely to grow once they venture on their own

 

Quote from B on February 15, 2022, 3:22 pm

Thank you Lucio for your kind words.

I am thinking of removing from my answer any reference to the 15 days:

Me: Hi X. It is terrible to hear this news, will you please receive my deepest sympathy. As concerns the fee notice for my 2020 work: can you please have it processed? I hope payment can take place shortly, so that we can both close this chapter soon. Kind regards.

This is based on the following reasoning

• waiting as I did so far and letting him "not respond" has worked in pushing him to contact me, so he is feeling the need to protect himself;
• the 15 days timeframe is more suited to another certified email push than to a text message; if I do it here, I will have to think whether to redo it via email, and this would depotentiate my future email;
• showing disinterest is likely to worry him more, rather than less (he will ask himself: why isn't he pushing more? What's his plan?);
• the 15 days timeframe binds me to act more than it does bind him to act, especially if written in the above nonchalant way;
• in a way, his contacting me is a positive sign: while he is continuing to manipulate, he also has shown that he wants this closed as well; so the idea would be to reward the little bit of positive behavior inherent in his move;
• the general tone coming out of the message seems a bit more powerful and firm this way, but also more "power-protecting" for him;
• continuing to push without escalating abruptly fits more into your teaching of not making unneeded "open enemies";
• the more I "give him rope", the more I will be able to frame him as unreasonable and nasty if things escalate to a lawsuit (I pushed, and pushed, and pushed, and he only tried to gain time and insult me);
• I can always escalate later, if he "reneges" on his implicit "willingness to close".

On the other hand, in rereading what I just wrote here above I am also starting to have thoughts that seem to me like what he sent worked, in a way. I wonder if my willingness to de escalate is the result of his manipulation. Yesterday I thought of giving him a discount to close.

It seems to me that while you, Lucio, adopted a more forceful tone after reading his message, I am doing something opposite. And maybe this is a bad sign.

And I also wonder if sending him sympathy is something bad from my self-signaling point of view and if I should not escalate radically instead to protect my self-esteem, something like:

Me: Your tone is totally unacceptable. Please proceed to pay the fee notice so we can close this.

I am starting to get confused here.

Quote from B on February 15, 2022, 7:46 pm

I reflected more, and am leaning toward sending the draft with the 15 days timeframe.

He is just being too damn nasty to give him more time. There comes a moment where you have to draw a boundary.

I don't want to keep chasing this forever anyway. This has to end shortly. And the text is basically the intermediate email we devised before the final push. So I think it's right to push more now. The idea is "you play your games, I'm still moving forward here".

Quote from B on February 15, 2022, 11:18 pm

The last draft my tired mind has devised.

I will place it after his message to facilitate reading:

Him: Hi Bel! Let's meet when you wish for things that interest you. I take the occasion to make you note that I did not receive not even a telegram of sympathy for the death of my father. But I want to believe this only derived from the fact that you might not have had knowledge of this before now. I await news from you.

Me: Hi X. It is terrible to receive this news: my prayers are with you, for an event like that there are no adequate words. [alternative: It is terrible to hear this news, will you please receive my most sincere and felt sympathy for the tragic event.]
As concerns the fee notice for my 2020 work, to which you refer, will you please instead directly pay it. I hope payment can take place shortly, so that we can both close this chapter within 15 days.
Kind regards.

What do you think?

Quote from B on February 16, 2022, 10:19 am

The more I understand the exact reasoning behind his manipulative mirroring power move in sending me his text, the more I am getting angrier.

He is in essence trying to frame ME as the one who is in delay with something important.

Here my last draft:

Me: Hi X, it is sad to receive this news; my prayers and heart are with you, there are no adequate words.

As concerns the fee notice for my 2020 work, to which you refer, will you please directly settle it; I hope payment can take place shortly, so that we can both close this old chapter within 15 days.

Kind regards.

Reasoning:

Me: Hi X, it is sad to receive this news (I am learning this now, so your rant was out of place); my prayers and heart are with you (pray for you power move, courtesy Lucio and Franzese), there are no adequate words (I'm not giving you what you want, but hopefully you will be the only one to understand this by reading my message).

As concerns the fee notice for my 2020 work, to which you refer (you introduced the topic, so it is fair for me to shift to this immediately after the above), will you please directly settle it (I understand why you delayed paying me, and that now you can proceed; I also don't want to inconvenience you by meeting in person when this can be resolved soon); I hope payment can take place shortly, so that we can both close this old chapter within 15 days (this has dragged out too much, and you have an interest to close this as well as I do).

Kind regards.

I tried to apply everything I learned here.

But he is really a bad person and dragging me out. If he calls, I don't think I will pick up.

I just reread the original message we drafted above at the start of this page, and it's funny to realize that all my thinking led to changes that are minimal. It is in essence the same communication with small additional touches.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 16, 2022, 11:15 am

Yes, exactly, the message after the first revision was already close to perfect.

One millimeter here or there won't make the difference, the biggest difference now is in you stepping back from this.

It's done now, you planned your move well, send it tomorrow and think of something else.