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Lucio's journal

Quick observation:

Breaking rapport with negative judge behavior

Some days ago I was at a social event.

One white woman was sharing her experience of how it felt to be asked for pictures in Indonesia, and we were all smiling along at her story.

Not her friend though.
She also had similar experiences, and exactly while her friend talked animatedly, her face showed disgust and annoyance.

And right when her friend said "it's fun, it feels like you're a star, I liked it", she said:

Friend: (disgusted face, arms crossed), no, not me

What an idiotic behavior.

Why was it a bad move?

With those words and nonverbals, she was breaking rapport with everyone, and particularly with her friend.
Plus, she was passing judgment on her friend, suggesting that she was vain for enjoying that others asked for her picture.

Furthermore, that was really bad behavior for a friend.

This is your friend's story, don't try to insert yourself and steal the show with your negative feelings. Let her have a good time sharing it. Let her feel good about it instead of framing her negatively with your rapport-breaking, judging grinch behavior.

It's not like anyone thought she was "better" for disagreeing anyway. Everyone felt she was bitchy and unfriendly, instead.

  • Moral of the story: even just being a good friend requires a minimum of social skills and emotional intelligence

 

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DMStef
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Cockblocked by a jealous female friend (lost it)

I was talking to a pretty girl -K girl- on her way to meet a friend.

She was running before I caught up with her and we are getting close to her meeting spot, and both are bad news.
So I cut it short and ask her if she’s single. She says “yes” and slows down until she stops.

Now it's looking great, instead.

And everything looks good until… Until her friend comes over to us.

The white trash -and I call her this way becuase this trashy behavior in my books- rushes to us, which shows all her personal drive to get out of her way to ruin our interaction.
She greets the girl head-on, trying to give me her back as much as possible and cut me out. And she tells her friend “let’s go”.

What a gratuitous move, K girl wanted to be there.
I’m thinking she could have been spiteful/jealous.

The K girl keeps looking at me though, so I spot an opportunity to keep engaging her.
I ask her again if she’d like to see me one day, and despite white trash's best efforts, now we are taking out our phones to exchange contacts.

It’s looking OK right now.

While we do that, I try to also get more friendly and win over the white trash. I’m thinking that if she sees I’m an OK guy, maybe she changes her mind.
Plus, if I manage to end it on a friendly toner with her too, she will not talk shit about me once we leave.

But instead of taking my friendly overture and change her tack, she says that “her friend doesn’t want to exchange contacts”.
I reply “that's not true, we both want to see each other”.
White trash jumps at it and says “you’re forcing her”. Man, being framed as an abuser, that f*cking pissed me off -and, unluckily, threw me off, too-.

I ask K girl again if she’d like to exchange contact, but now she’s not collaborating as much, she’s torn in the tug of war between me, and white trash.
And I’m losing it, since K girl feels more and more under pressure to follow her friend.
So she says that I can give her my number. I usually don’t do that, so I say that “I don’t remember it, she can give me hers”.

White trash jumps on it again and with the most annoyed voice, says: “oh, too bad you don’t remember it”.

I tell again K girl if she’d like to see me she can give me her number, and no pressure, if she changes her mind, she doesn’t even have to reply. I"m trying to get a positive sign from her, which would tip the balance of power on my side. But I'm also lowering the bar for her to say yes -the "you can avoid to reply-, so she doesn't look like she's siding against her friend.

The idea behind the technique was not bad, but it wasn't great in this situation, since it was following a trend of me losing more and more power.
Something more drastic might have been in the cards, at this point.
But as I said, I wasn't at peak performance and wasn't thinking too clearly -again, on the importance of an antifragile ego and don't letting others push your buttons-.

But now it’s lost, she says “it’s OK”.
Before they can reject me, I say "cheers" and move away -a small final power move-.

I wish I'd have at least told K girl she needs a new friend.
People like white trash shouldn't have a place in anyone's social circle.

 

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DMStef
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

No lessons learned - just personal reflections: when to stop a romance to avoid future pain?

There is no clear answer to that question.

One must draw his own conclusions depending on the situation, his and her personality, and his own philosophy on what it means to be a "force for good" -if he doesn't even care of being a "force for good", then the question might not even arise-.

Since I am now seeing one woman quite regularly, plus planning future outings together as well, the question is becoming more and more relevant.

She knows full well that I'm passing by and that we're not going to be together for the long term, so no games here.
Yet, the way we are acting, seems to deny that reality.

lucio picnic in seoul

In a way, I am adding a lot of value by helping her forget her recent breakup from a long-term relationship. But that added value usually peaks after a certain timeframe. And if you keep spending time together, then you are not helping her forget, but becoming the new long-term partner.
And you don't usually treat a pain with another pain.

I'm still not sure whether our time together before I leave will be enough to turn into a heartbreak. Maybe not. But to be sure, I should probably first put a timeframe on our relationship and say that I will leave at the end of the month.

This is a case of "taking the early pain to avoid likely bigger future pain".
Discussing your true situation will most likely detract from the early whirlwind romance. Or, at least, add a veneer of melancholy and sorrow to your romance.

The same dilemma arises with friendships but at a smaller scale.

 

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Stef
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Should you tell a friend his GF is highly manipulative, or not?

The obvious answer would seem to be "yes".

But there as some caveats:

  1. If he loves her / wants to be with her
  2. And you tell her she's a bad person...
  3. ... Then you are harming not just his relationship, but your friendship as well

I know this dynamic all too well. I have been the guy that some of my lovers' girlfriends warned against. And my lovers ended up complaining to me about their friends who "cannot be happy for them".

How do I know she's manipulative?

Several signs, starting from the biggest one:

  • High likelihood "fake pregnancy"

The two had been broken up for some time.

Then, one morning, she showed up to his place.
She had been the night out drinking, and no

By the way, for the women: provided he is stil into you and/or sexually attracted, showing up to his door unannounced is a super power move to "restart" relationships.

Well, they had sex of course, then she slept at his place, and then dropped the bomb: "I'm pregnant".

Now you'd never guess, but she refused to do another test with him.
Plus, the obvious question: what the hell was she doing, pregnant and spending the night out, getting drunk?

  • Strange calls and texts

My friend never controlled his girlfriend.

But, over the years, he noticed more than once some strange texts and calls. Once they were in bed and she picked up a call from a guy who said "baby". He demanded an explanation, and she called the number in front of him, yelling at the guy to never call her again.

Other times, he noticed that some of the texts she received started with a foreign number, but he never inquired.

  • The "secret list of men to avoid": how did she know? 

Turns out, in Seoul there is a "secret list" going around in some female-only private forums of the various foreign men who live here.

In there, people share names and surnames of guys.
Most of all, the list includes players and "guys to avoid". With information such as their places, the lies they told, as well as sexual histories and potentially venereal diseases (not a bad project by the way, and we know that because another guy we know ended up on that list).

Well, my friends' girlfriend also knew about that list.
But how did she know? Only certain types of women know and frequent those private forums. And, usually, it's the more promiscuous ones.


Dropping hints, without going all in

So far, my strategies to share advice has been:

  1. Drop hints: Instead of saying things like "only certain type of women know about that list", I ask him "how does she know about that list"
  2. Confirm his doubts: when he wondered about why on earth she would refuse a second test, I'd confirm. "Yeah, I can see why you don't fully trust that. I would feel the same, that definitely sounds strange"
  3. Frame advise as "whatever you do, I'll be happy with your decision and support it": this is important. People must feel like you're going to stay friend and supportive even if they decide to stay with their partner. This is the frame that allows you to give some discordant advice, while preserving your friendship

 

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Stef
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

How I went from lover to BF candidate - and refused it

I met this lady on a Thursday of some weeks ago.

I clearly remember it was a Thursday because it was raining and we always met on Thursday with my friends. But they chickened out and said "only guys will be around on a such a rainy day". I said I was going out because rain is romantic -and I really meant it-. To which the leader of the pack, always ready to social climb (see advanced forum's thread), replied: "yeah, so romantic to go back home alone".
I went out and went on 2 instant dates.

Quick date, resolute escalation to sex

The second date, we went to a cafe, had a good chat together, and then I brought her home.

I threw her a couple of times on the bed -and I hope you know this means not "violent slamming", but as part of the unwritten rules of more physical, but still safe and consensual, sexual escalation-. It was not an easy escalation though, she tried/pretended several too many times to leave, and I had to pull her back more than once.
I knew she was enjoying the sexuality of our exchange, but her rational brain was too switched on.

There comes a time to decide: push until the end, or step back

So eventually I stopped the escalation, and walked her out for a taxi.

I have now experienced several times that when you can feel that the chances of sex are slim, it's better to step back, abandon the sex intent, and get back to control the interaction as a leader -contrary to what some authors recommend-.

We stayed in touch, and she invited me twice to join her out with her friends -notice the attempt of making the BF already-.
Eventually she realized I wouldn't go out with her friends, and agreed to meet together at my place for dinner -today-.

Again, this proves what I say in "Dating Power Dynamics": it's not true that once you get to physical escalation it's either you have sex, or you never meet again.
Instead, it's all about how you escalate, and how you react once sex is not happening. If you can switch quickly and take it stoically, then you're often still in.

Anyway, fast forward to today.

Second date: turning into a frame battle of "be my BF" VS "let's do it now and... Nothing official"

My place is right in front of the metro, which is not ideal: we don't have time to rebuild any warm up.

I would have gone to get a tea somewhere, just to rebuild some social capital, but... I had a problem. My 20/4 intermittent fasting said I had to eat quickly to stay within the 4h (damn, you, Stef :D).

My goal is always sex before eating, then eating, then sex again-. Not this time though, to stay within the 4h, I didn't start anything sexual.

I also thought that my quick and resolute escalation the first time out had me in the lover category, and that eating and talking first wasn't going to derail that.
Instead, that was the case.
I can't be 100% sure that staying at my place without making my move for an hour or so was that main factor that sealed my deal as a BF. Probably not since she already had a strong boyfriend-seeking attitude, but waiting and having a very good conersation certainly didn't help.

Surfacing her fears of getting hurt

Eventually, I had her verbalize her issues, and it was textbook boyfriend talk, plus fear of getting hurt. And that was the hardest part to overcome, far more than the boyfriend/lover thing.

It was a moral dilemma: push and push or, even worst, manipulate and lead her on, or just call it a date with a good conversation and that's it?

I decided to stick with my frame, without lies.
I gave a talk on embracing vulnerability and accepting risks to enjoy the rewards, rather than living in the doldrums of greyness, and then linked it back to something she said earlier. It was quite a good speech, actually. It was rational talk, but loaded with emotions, so it didn't completely break mood with the sexual atmosphere.

She was steadfast though, and too afraid. And I was losing attraction big time. I always lose attraction when going from sexual to ration. Cajoling and selling doesn't do it for me. And I'm not attracted to women who are too fearful to embrace love, romance, and passion.

So...

Have a good rest of your life

So after one more of her fake attempt of leaving, I told her "yeah, you should go".
She looked at me as if to say "really", and I nodded.

She turned around before leaving, and said "goodbye", with a question mark intonation in the end.
I said "have a good one", with a neutral voice, as if to say "have a good rest of your life (without me in it").

I frankly think she did the right decision.
And I hope she'll find someone good for her, she's a good person with a lot going on in her life.

And the fact that I am not too bothered about it, also underscores my own development.

Have a good one, E., may you have a happy life.

 

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Musicforthejuan
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

I'm now preparing an article on "psychopath's sexual strategies".

Even I was shocked by some of the techniques and mindsets I've read and encountered.

Just a quick heads up.

Edit:

 

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Stef
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

sounds extremely interesting!

An article about female Psycos and cluster B women:

“To her you’re just a play thing; she’ll make you out to be a king, then she’ll set fire to your throne.” – Anon

https://illimitablemen.com/2014/02/17/lucifers-daughter/

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Lucio Buffalmano

My first time doing a pick-up Bootcamp

There were a few reasons I wanted to do it:

  1. I intuited that more indirect game works better here in Korea, but I had lots of room for improvement with indirect since I rarely used it
  2. I wanted (and had) to learn more about what I call "risk-avoidant sexual marketplaces", and Korea being one of the top risk-avoidant cultures, this was a great opportunity

And, of course, it's something I had to do for the work I do, but somehow never got around to doing it.
One of the reasons I've never done a Bootcamp is that I rarely saw guys doing really well, and being really good at what they do -and if they do really well because they're very handsome, it doesn't count in my opinion-.

But Kether from Pickupkorea.com seemed legit, so I got in touch with him and agreed to go out one day and have him give me feedback.
It was far better than I expected. Kether is more than legit, he's a beast, really good at what he does, really good at teaching, and both friendly and very professional at the same time.

I learned a ton, both in the nuances and in trying a new style, a style which is more indirect on the approach, and more based on comfort during the exchange.

Kether would tell me "go talk to that girl and tell her about her bag". That seemed strange at first as it's not something I'd usually do, and that's why it was great.
And it worked great.

I had been thinking a lot about power dynamics and dating, and when it's better to go high-power/high-confidence, generally associated with more direct and more dominant behavior, and when it's better to focus more on comfort, generally associated with more indirect approaches and less dominant behavior.
Both of which are very girl and culture-dependent.

I was trying my own way to strike a balance, to signal friendliness without being too submissive.
But Kether turbocharged that learning and took to a whole new level.

Kether's more indirect and comfort-focused style works far better within Korea, and I'm pretty sure it works better in all risk-avoidant cultures.
What I learned will go a long, long way, to improve and inform my modules on dating power dynamics and how to calibrate to women and culture.

Exchanging opinion on big names

Finally, as an added bonus, Kether has been in this industry for a long time.

He knows a lot of the big names, some of them he met personally, and went out with.
Exchanging opinions with him, a credible and proven success story, was incredibly helpful. It confirmed some of my opinions on some of the big names in the pick-up industry, and it will further help me to improve my reviews -I will be mentioning him there, too-.

 

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StefLorenzoE
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

sounds a very interesting experience full of nuances.

and it will further help him to improve my product

here do you mean:  help me

?

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Lucio Buffalmano

Thank you Stef, fixed it.

 

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Stef
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