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PD mating season(Journal dating)

#41 · October 30, 2023, 7:44 pm

Quote from Power Duck on October 30, 2023, 7:44 pm
Quote from Bel on October 30, 2023, 12:31 pm
Hi Power Duck.
my perspective on the facts you mention in your last post:
Quote from Power Duck on October 30, 2023, 10:09 am
Cancelling on last moment:
Since this girl told me that she would like to meet and keep talking with me in college and in the bus, and since we both have an habit to arrive late at the bus stop: yesterday night I proposed to meet at the bus stop today, she agreed.
My take on this situation:
When you propose a meet-up that doesn't push the interaction forward, women usually take it as an indication of disinterest from a "romantic" point of view, and as an indication that you like them as a friend and/or might be unsure.
Since you had already talked with her on the bus, I assume multiple times, you could have exchanged contacts and/or proposed a coffee or smoothie after college.
Saying "Let's meet tomorrow as well at the bus stop" IMO comes across as a bit fearful, as if you said "I need to feel more at ease with you before asking you out". It's what a woman would have proposed to a man to get him to realize he had to ask her out.
Today around 10 min before the agreed hour, she told me that her mother's car was free and that she would go to college in said car to practice, also apologized for telling me at last moment.
Now this doesn't totally count as a flake, since your proposal has more the vibe of a "friends meet-up" than a "date".
But still, the higher-level concept IMO is: when a woman flakes on you at the last minute, giving any response is usually a no-no.
In most cases, a woman who flakes on you at the last moment is basically indicating that she doesn't want to pursue a romantic relationship.
But there's a certain percentage of cases where women are unsure and on the fence, and unconsciously flake to see what the man will do.
The moment you communicate to her, in any way, that you are "ok" with this kind of flaky behavior, even by calling her out on it playfully, women instantly lose attraction.
If instead you go silent, and don't respond at all, there's a possibility she may call you back in the future and apologize, and ask you out.
So, if a woman flakes at the last minute, the general rule is: don't respond, don't call her again, don't ask her out again, do nothing.
In this case a woman may or may not come back.
But if the man pursues her again before that moment, he's usually significantly lowering attraction.
It may be possible sometimes to recover an interaction even after this kind of situation if you see her in person by chance, and the interaction restarts again from scratch. But it's very difficult.
Thanks Bel, lots of valuable information here.
I'm starting to think that the point of the man chasing is: always strive to be power positive, if you chase and she denies your advances wait, don't keep risking the posibility of losing more power. If she disrespects/flakes you and you state that it's ok, that makes you power negative. In this case seems like she may have not done those things with the purpose of testing me given that I came across as chasing and she reempowered me.
These days I've been thinking that interactions with this girl were strange, despite me messing things up several times she's still attracted, some possible explanations:
Im higher value and higher smv than her.
We get along pretty well.
When I go power negative she reempowers me.
My failures while texting may be negated by how I behave when I'm with her. I may come across as chasing in text but I also come across as dominant and confident in person.
Again similar to the last time, today she flaked, she reempowered me, and basically invited me to go to college tomorrow in her car,..... her mother goes too (today she came to college with her mother in her car too). We also went in the bus together again and the conv went great, bantering, teasing and talking about lots of things, some people joined our conv, and a girl possibly tried to break the seduction, both of us handled the interaction more or less in a decent way, I also introduced some colaborative frames after it and talked about how weird the girl that tried to break the attraction was, she realized that she didn't had good intentions too.
Back to going with her tomorrow:
She either sees me as a friend. (Which would contradict the fact that she told me via text that she wants to get to know me, as well as the vibe that interactions with her give me, still not impossible, that could explain that she doesn't care if her mother gets to know me)
Wants to make sure I'm not only into her for sex. (Meeting her mother that early makes me remember the "stereotypical" ol' days, in which one had to go ask the parents of the girl to set a date. Getting to know her mother counts as investing if I recall correctly, if she's the kind of girl that talks about almost everything with her mother, then that would make sense)
Not going with her could set the frame of: "Im into you only for sex/I'm insecure about this", today before taking different ways I asked her about going with her tomorrow. I get the feeling that she wants me to go tomorrow with her,.... and her mother.
Let's say I'm a bit confused right now, anyway will stop chasing her for a bit and propose a date in the future, about tomorrow..... I still haven't decided yet, going with her seems to be the option with less risk, we both know that we're interested in each other, and it's convenient for me to go with her given that we enter in class at the same hour, she knows it, so saying no could come across as insecure.
Since this girl told me that she barely uses social media I figured that she would be a bit different from genz girls, but not that much.
Cheers.

Quote from Bel on October 30, 2023, 12:31 pm
Hi Power Duck.
my perspective on the facts you mention in your last post:
Quote from Power Duck on October 30, 2023, 10:09 am
Cancelling on last moment:
Since this girl told me that she would like to meet and keep talking with me in college and in the bus, and since we both have an habit to arrive late at the bus stop: yesterday night I proposed to meet at the bus stop today, she agreed.
My take on this situation:
When you propose a meet-up that doesn't push the interaction forward, women usually take it as an indication of disinterest from a "romantic" point of view, and as an indication that you like them as a friend and/or might be unsure.
Since you had already talked with her on the bus, I assume multiple times, you could have exchanged contacts and/or proposed a coffee or smoothie after college.
Saying "Let's meet tomorrow as well at the bus stop" IMO comes across as a bit fearful, as if you said "I need to feel more at ease with you before asking you out". It's what a woman would have proposed to a man to get him to realize he had to ask her out.
Today around 10 min before the agreed hour, she told me that her mother's car was free and that she would go to college in said car to practice, also apologized for telling me at last moment.
Now this doesn't totally count as a flake, since your proposal has more the vibe of a "friends meet-up" than a "date".
But still, the higher-level concept IMO is: when a woman flakes on you at the last minute, giving any response is usually a no-no.
In most cases, a woman who flakes on you at the last moment is basically indicating that she doesn't want to pursue a romantic relationship.
But there's a certain percentage of cases where women are unsure and on the fence, and unconsciously flake to see what the man will do.
The moment you communicate to her, in any way, that you are "ok" with this kind of flaky behavior, even by calling her out on it playfully, women instantly lose attraction.
If instead you go silent, and don't respond at all, there's a possibility she may call you back in the future and apologize, and ask you out.
So, if a woman flakes at the last minute, the general rule is: don't respond, don't call her again, don't ask her out again, do nothing.
In this case a woman may or may not come back.
But if the man pursues her again before that moment, he's usually significantly lowering attraction.
It may be possible sometimes to recover an interaction even after this kind of situation if you see her in person by chance, and the interaction restarts again from scratch. But it's very difficult.

Thanks Bel, lots of valuable information here.

I'm starting to think that the point of the man chasing is: always strive to be power positive, if you chase and she denies your advances wait, don't keep risking the posibility of losing more power. If she disrespects/flakes you and you state that it's ok, that makes you power negative. In this case seems like she may have not done those things with the purpose of testing me given that I came across as chasing and she reempowered me.

These days I've been thinking that interactions with this girl were strange, despite me messing things up several times she's still attracted, some possible explanations:

Im higher value and higher smv than her.
We get along pretty well.
When I go power negative she reempowers me.
My failures while texting may be negated by how I behave when I'm with her. I may come across as chasing in text but I also come across as dominant and confident in person.

Again similar to the last time, today she flaked, she reempowered me, and basically invited me to go to college tomorrow in her car,..... her mother goes too (today she came to college with her mother in her car too). We also went in the bus together again and the conv went great, bantering, teasing and talking about lots of things, some people joined our conv, and a girl possibly tried to break the seduction, both of us handled the interaction more or less in a decent way, I also introduced some colaborative frames after it and talked about how weird the girl that tried to break the attraction was, she realized that she didn't had good intentions too.

Back to going with her tomorrow:

She either sees me as a friend. (Which would contradict the fact that she told me via text that she wants to get to know me, as well as the vibe that interactions with her give me, still not impossible, that could explain that she doesn't care if her mother gets to know me)
Wants to make sure I'm not only into her for sex. (Meeting her mother that early makes me remember the "stereotypical" ol' days, in which one had to go ask the parents of the girl to set a date. Getting to know her mother counts as investing if I recall correctly, if she's the kind of girl that talks about almost everything with her mother, then that would make sense)
Not going with her could set the frame of: "Im into you only for sex/I'm insecure about this", today before taking different ways I asked her about going with her tomorrow. I get the feeling that she wants me to go tomorrow with her,.... and her mother.

Let's say I'm a bit confused right now, anyway will stop chasing her for a bit and propose a date in the future, about tomorrow..... I still haven't decided yet, going with her seems to be the option with less risk, we both know that we're interested in each other, and it's convenient for me to go with her given that we enter in class at the same hour, she knows it, so saying no could come across as insecure.

Since this girl told me that she barely uses social media I figured that she would be a bit different from genz girls, but not that much.

Cheers.

Jack and Kavalier have reacted to this post.

#42 · October 30, 2023, 7:59 pm

Quote from Power Duck on October 30, 2023, 7:59 pm
Quote from Kavalier on October 30, 2023, 3:49 pm
Hello guys
Thank you for your kind words, Lucio, Power Duck, Bel!
PD, just to add another idea to Lucio's and Bel's golden advices:
If you propose to meet women in ordinary situations like these, they may rationalize thay you expect to be with them all the time. In the not so bad scenario, I agree with Bel, they may take this an indication that you are qualifying for friendship. It also "cheapens" your presence (everything that becomes too regular, too abundant, too easily attainable, loses value. At least this is what economists say). So besides wasting time/effort when you add extra steps, as Lucio says, you also take a penalty in value.
In the worst case scenario... some might interpret this as you threading into stalker territory. While this is not what is trully happening here, we can't control what others will think, so we have to be careful.
My take here would be:
- Keep your presence to a minimum
- Keep your presence special (let her associate you not with mundane encounters, but with special occasions).
- Think your meeting invitations are limited. Transitioned here in the forum once talked about the "one chance per girl per lifetime" rule of the universe, wich I thought was gold. (As Lucio says, it can be flexibilized over time)
- Avoid putting her in situations where she has to make excuses for not doing things she usually does just not to meet you (this doesn't seem to have happened here, she still seems to be receptive to you. But it can happen, so it's better to keep that in mind. Some women change their daily routines and even telephone numbers because of guys that are too pushy)
- As Lucio and Bel said before, this is the time to make mistakes. So, above all, don't be afraid to fuck up 😀
Thanks Kavalier.
Your post makes sense to me. The thing is that, this whole situation feels a bit weird for me, (it could be because it's the first time though), I fail at something but after that she reempowers me and makes me power positive.
Also she's interested but doesn't agree to set a date, maybe she wants more investment or proof that I don't intend this to be simply a hook up?, wouldn't surprise me specially considering she inviting me to go to college in her car with her and her mother, (still it could be that she thinks of me as a friend, but I don't get friendzone vibes) considering that she could be a trad. girl it would make sense.
As Lucio and Bel said before, this is the time to make mistakes. So, above all, don't be afraid to fuck up 😀
So far, I'm surprised on how easy I'm taking this, in the past the anxiety was all over the roof :D.
Cheers.

Quote from Kavalier on October 30, 2023, 3:49 pm
Hello guys
Thank you for your kind words, Lucio, Power Duck, Bel!
PD, just to add another idea to Lucio's and Bel's golden advices:
If you propose to meet women in ordinary situations like these, they may rationalize thay you expect to be with them all the time. In the not so bad scenario, I agree with Bel, they may take this an indication that you are qualifying for friendship. It also "cheapens" your presence (everything that becomes too regular, too abundant, too easily attainable, loses value. At least this is what economists say). So besides wasting time/effort when you add extra steps, as Lucio says, you also take a penalty in value.
In the worst case scenario... some might interpret this as you threading into stalker territory. While this is not what is trully happening here, we can't control what others will think, so we have to be careful.
My take here would be:
- Keep your presence to a minimum
- Keep your presence special (let her associate you not with mundane encounters, but with special occasions).
- Think your meeting invitations are limited. Transitioned here in the forum once talked about the "one chance per girl per lifetime" rule of the universe, wich I thought was gold. (As Lucio says, it can be flexibilized over time)
- Avoid putting her in situations where she has to make excuses for not doing things she usually does just not to meet you (this doesn't seem to have happened here, she still seems to be receptive to you. But it can happen, so it's better to keep that in mind. Some women change their daily routines and even telephone numbers because of guys that are too pushy)
- As Lucio and Bel said before, this is the time to make mistakes. So, above all, don't be afraid to fuck up 😀

Thanks Kavalier.

Your post makes sense to me. The thing is that, this whole situation feels a bit weird for me, (it could be because it's the first time though), I fail at something but after that she reempowers me and makes me power positive.

Also she's interested but doesn't agree to set a date, maybe she wants more investment or proof that I don't intend this to be simply a hook up?, wouldn't surprise me specially considering she inviting me to go to college in her car with her and her mother, (still it could be that she thinks of me as a friend, but I don't get friendzone vibes) considering that she could be a trad. girl it would make sense.

As Lucio and Bel said before, this is the time to make mistakes. So, above all, don't be afraid to fuck up 😀

So far, I'm surprised on how easy I'm taking this, in the past the anxiety was all over the roof :D.

Cheers.

Jack and Kavalier have reacted to this post.

#43 · October 30, 2023, 8:03 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 30, 2023, 12:58 pm
Another golden post for you PD by Bel.
Of course you're learning, so all good and do all the mistakes possible (as long as you take note for future improvement).
It's an eary rule of thumb:
generally speaking, effective seduction adds no extra step.
So the question you always gotta ask yourself is:
How it this step going to move us forward?
If it doesn't, you don't take it.
Exceptions later on apply and once you know the rules great seductions are the opposite: they can purposefully become more wasteful, spend more time, etc.
But that's for later, and it's not even needed.
OFF-TOPIC
Would you be OK to move this journal in the dating section?
I think it's best for the forum and for you as well since there's more activity in the journal section so we can keep it separated by topic, and also avoid cannibalizing different journal updates.
Let me know if you're cool with that.
OFF-TOPIC

Thanks Lucio.

How it this step going to move us forward?

Golden advice :), thanks.

Of course you're learning, so all good and do all the mistakes possible (as long as you take note for future improvement).

Indeed, the fact that this girl reempowers me right after coming across as power negative, and seems to be really interested allows me to commit a lot of mistakes without messing things up, that is: more opportunities for learning.

Cheers.

Jack and Kavalier have reacted to this post.

#44 · October 30, 2023, 8:08 pm

Back to going with her tomorrow:
She either sees me as a friend. (Which would contradict the fact that she told me via text that she wants to get to know me, as well as the vibe that interactions with her give me, still not impossible, that could explain that she doesn't care if her mother gets to know me)
Wants to make sure I'm not only into her for sex. (Meeting her mother that early makes me remember the "stereotypical" ol' days, in which one had to go ask the parents of the girl to set a date. Getting to know her mother counts as investing if I recall correctly, if she's the kind of girl that talks about almost everything with her mother, then that would make sense)
Not going with her could set the frame of: "Im into you only for sex/I'm insecure about this", today before taking different ways I asked her about going with her tomorrow. I get the feeling that she wants me to go tomorrow with her,.... and her mother.

That and as always the "darker" reason:

She wants me in the friend zone, she doesn't deny the possibility of a date while testing how much she can get from me/maintaining a "friendship". Could also explain the weird vibes this whole situation gives me, I believe that when the seduction process goes well or not, a primitive part in our brains knows it.

Unfortunately, it's something really common nowadays.

Jack and Kavalier have reacted to this post.

#45 · October 30, 2023, 9:52 pm

Rock on, PD! All seems to be going great. I think it's not weird at all. In fact, I've learned that the process of meeting and attracting someone, as long as you've got your fundamentals right, rarely incurs in fatal mistakes. It already puts you un front of most people. Of course, studying SU makes for leveling that game up even more.

No surprise at all that she overlooks those "mistakes" we pointed out.

Meet her mom, no problem (and I think this is the socially calibrated thing to do). Chat with her mom, be polite, show the awesome chap you are (if the mom approves of you, everything becomes easier). Just keep in mind that it's a sign that she wants to move the relationship towards "serious" from the outset. So be careful not to hurt this girl if it's not what you have in mind.

And my take is: don't make too much of this "friend" label. As long as you're following what PU and SU says about presenting yourself as desirable, you'll rarely be her friend without benefits if you don't want to.

Edit: wanted to add that being "just friends" is also great. That would be my preferred option if I thought that taking the dating route with her might risk hurting her and ruining the relationship. As you are still early in the relationship, it's also safer to frame everything as "it has always been about friendship" yourself now instead of pushing it as far as you can and then drop her. You can also learn how to date with non-conservative girls.

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#46 · October 30, 2023, 10:31 pm

Thanks for the response Kavalier.

Although I initially decided to go the "nothing serious route", I'm rethinking about whether or not to go a bit more serious. It will depend on how much I like her, so far, she has the odds with her.

I also recall Bel pointing out that a relationship can still serve as a learning opportunity to improve game. Still nothing has happened yet, I'll keep living in the present and see how things turn out.

Cheers.

P.S:

So far the biggest thing I'm getting from this is how wrong the thoughts originated from my attachment style are turning out to be.

Jack and Kavalier have reacted to this post.

#47 · October 31, 2023, 9:54 am

Went with her and her mother in the car about 2 h ago.

Her mother is really dominant and masculine. Considering this her father may be really submissive.

My mother is dominant too albeit not as Uber dominant as hers, I used to be submissive because of this, given all that, I understand her situation well. That means her submissive behaviour is rooted in insecurity and trauma rather than being learned as a result of imitating her mother, as I understand girls in the past/conservative households did.

Im no expert in psychoanalysis here, but seeing her behaviour and considering her mother's behaviour, it's likely that she's psychologically infantile, trauma and manipulation/abuse can keep a person into a "child state" . I think it was a good thing to meet her mother, since now I can get an idea about her upbringing and mental health.

I have to think about this, I like her personality, but I'm realizing that status and power skills are possibly as important as compability and looks in order to enter a ltr.

Being socially powerful makes both men and women more attractive, the opposite is also true, at least for me: not being socially powerful/power aware is a turn off.

I initially thought that my indecisiveness was due to my attachment style, but it may have to do more with status than with attachment.

Again I'll have to think about it, I may ruin the seduction on purpose, possibly going the friend route.

I deserve a high quality girl that really turns me on and isn't simply "good enough".

I get the feeling that my smv is way too much above hers. Thankfully I decided to face those thoughts instead of running away from them, and falling in the trap of possibly getting in a relationship I don't fully appreciate for fear&scarcity mindset.

P.S:

A great experience for improvement and empowerment nonetheless.

#48 · October 31, 2023, 1:57 pm

#2 cold approach.

Today on the bus on the way to the city, I started chatting with a group of girls. Since I thought I knew one of the girls that was how I started the conv, on the bus chatted a bit since I caught a cold and I don't hear too much due to the mucus. After exiting the bus I chatted with the girl that I thought I knew made some jokes and got some laughs, before going separating ways while walking I asked her:

PD: well it was cool talking with you. How about we have a coffee someday?
Looks down while we both walk and doesn't say anything
Her: sure if I see you around here.
PD: sure. Bye
Her: we will see each other. Bye.
All this was said while we both walked.

Pretty easy boys, wasn't nervous/scared in the least. Didn't get a number, but the experience itself is what counts.

P.S:

Maybe joining the conv the 3 girls were having would've been a cool way to showcase superior social and leadership skills. The girl lives about 20 meters from me so it's likely I'll see her again when I don't have a runny nose anymore 🙂.

#49 · November 6, 2023, 12:08 pm

Lately I've kept talking with the girl I was interested in.

I told her that I wasn't interested in anything other than being friends but there's a possibility she didn't understood what I meant. Anyway I introduced her to TPM since she's too nice and some manipulative girls are giving her a bit of a hard time, she was surprised by the things I told her about social and power dynamics and seemed to like the subject. It was a two hour conv. while we walked in the beach, the best conv I've had in a long time. Chemistry is still great.

I'm not sure if I like her or not, but at least now I'm almost sure that I have anxious-avoidant tendencies. Anyway I'll see where this goes.

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#50 · November 6, 2023, 12:50 pm

Just a guess from someone with very little context:

This lady is going to be so sad when you'll have a girlfriend (or when you'll share of some other lady-related adventure).

It reminds me of a bit of an old classic Italian pop song -taking place on the beach, including waves as the opening sound-.

The guy talks about his first love.
But he was too young to take the (romantic) lead.

And then when he's older and he thinks back about those days, he says:

"She was a little big love, nothing more than that.
I miss like crazy that little big love...
Today that I'd knew what to say, today that I'd knew what to do"

He's referring to the fact that his older self, with more experience, would know how to turn it from "chemistry", to "chemistry + intimacy/love".

Not saying it's necessarily your case, but I can't lie that the first thing I thought was that towards the end of that conversation, it may have been the perfect time to make a move and turn it into a "perfect day" romance -and not saying you should have done that, either-.

Just a thought.

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