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Power duck's journal

#161 · November 14, 2023, 7:05 pm

Quote from Power Duck on November 14, 2023, 7:05 pm
Today I saw and talked with the guy that has made the biggest psychological damage to me in my life: humiliations, name calling, one upping, etc. Our parents are friends and all those things are in the past so let's say there's no "oficial" bad feelings.
After exiting the bus he was behind me, and since I wanted to test my skills I pretended to fix my bag while I looked back to power protect myself while waiting. Here's the conv:
PD: man I hit that girl with my backpack getting out.
Him: yeah I've seen you
Him: well, you rizzling in the bus?
PD: what-is-rizzling
Him: flirting
PD while smirking: so speaking to girls is flirting to you?
Him: hahaha, no that's something that can be seen, even my friend who doesn't know you told me
PD: so when you speak to every girl you're flirting huh?
Him: yeah, well, not everyone
PD: haha I caught you, what a guy
Him: you were doing good flirting that's something I saw, it was evident
PD: nah man I behave like that with everyone, it's simply who I am (kind of justifying)
Him: you were doing good talking about communism
PD: see? how the hell flirts while talking about communism (not good, I'm playing under his frame)
Blablabla
Him: who is she, or they or whatever? Your flat companion?
PD: debate companion
Him: what do you debate about?
PD: academic debate, we debate about whatever
Him: well I hope you keep debating PD
PD: I hope you have luck with your grade buddy.
Him: you too.
Mistakes committed:
Submitting to his responses.
Following his frame
Things done well:
Reframing what's flirting for him and framing him as chasing too much.
What I could've done:
After breaking his frame with the reframe keep attacking, not respond directly to his questions, ask if he is mentally insane with a smirk when she asks about whatever she is.
Btw this girl was the manipulative girl I talked about sometime ago.
Overall my awareness and power skills are pretty good, the thing I did wrong was directly answering his questions. I hope I see this guy again, him flirting with every girl he sees is gonna be the "inside joke" from now on.
If I had spent a bit more time around him I would've definitely been able to adapt and counterattack even better. That's something I usually do and has had positive effects when dealing with power players.

Today I saw and talked with the guy that has made the biggest psychological damage to me in my life: humiliations, name calling, one upping, etc. Our parents are friends and all those things are in the past so let's say there's no "oficial" bad feelings.

After exiting the bus he was behind me, and since I wanted to test my skills I pretended to fix my bag while I looked back to power protect myself while waiting. Here's the conv:

PD: man I hit that girl with my backpack getting out.
Him: yeah I've seen you
Him: well, you rizzling in the bus?
PD: what-is-rizzling
Him: flirting
PD while smirking: so speaking to girls is flirting to you?
Him: hahaha, no that's something that can be seen, even my friend who doesn't know you told me
PD: so when you speak to every girl you're flirting huh?
Him: yeah, well, not everyone
PD: haha I caught you, what a guy
Him: you were doing good flirting that's something I saw, it was evident
PD: nah man I behave like that with everyone, it's simply who I am (kind of justifying)
Him: you were doing good talking about communism
PD: see? how the hell flirts while talking about communism (not good, I'm playing under his frame)
Blablabla
Him: who is she, or they or whatever? Your flat companion?
PD: debate companion
Him: what do you debate about?
PD: academic debate, we debate about whatever
Him: well I hope you keep debating PD
PD: I hope you have luck with your grade buddy.
Him: you too.

Mistakes committed:

Submitting to his responses.
Following his frame

Things done well:

Reframing what's flirting for him and framing him as chasing too much.

What I could've done:

After breaking his frame with the reframe keep attacking, not respond directly to his questions, ask if he is mentally insane with a smirk when she asks about whatever she is.

Btw this girl was the manipulative girl I talked about sometime ago.

Overall my awareness and power skills are pretty good, the thing I did wrong was directly answering his questions. I hope I see this guy again, him flirting with every girl he sees is gonna be the "inside joke" from now on.

If I had spent a bit more time around him I would've definitely been able to adapt and counterattack even better. That's something I usually do and has had positive effects when dealing with power players.

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#162 · November 14, 2023, 7:26 pm

Quote from Power Duck on November 14, 2023, 7:26 pm
I also went to the debate club meeting, man it was cool.
I offered myself to speak two times, first time to present myself first, and second to make a mini debate with experimented guys who do proffesional debates and other guy who is more versed than me in the matter. It was a 2 vs 2, the subject: "We have discovered alien life, should we speak to them?" Our point was not to, the others were to do it.
One of them from the other team (he was in favor of comunicating with aliens) used 1492 as an example of why communication is important and his teamate said that submission was the best option.
Here's what I said, overall:
Reframed 1492 as an example of how language differences caused massive death and destruction. Man I was thinking about PU while doing this :)
Rejecting humiliation and submission as an option to defend/deal against alien life. "We simply aren't going to humiliate the human race and be submissive to defend ourselves, we aren't going to"
Proposing to delay action while improving our defenses and communication
Why didn't aliens contact us first? Because they must know we know about them.
Do they have good intentions, probably not and initiating contact is risky.
Saying: "submission is not an option, I'm sorry" that I'm sorry of course was a power move :)
Rejecting a question from the enemy team while talking (because of course it's a cover attack) with a "no thank you", most people laughed (we were about 15 people) and I kept speaking so +1. I took this from a video John posted on the funny videos section if I recall correctly hahaha.
Also my status in the debate club is rising, most of them clapped when I finished and our posture won, my partner did good but he was a bit nervous and talked a bit too fast without making what I consider to be "solid arguments", I would say my point was the one that changed things, btw when deciding who won around 8 people voted in our favor while only 1 voted in their favor.
So overall a great day :D, the best part is that I've just started and I can and will improve a lot, my love for the limelight is going to be really useful in this kind of debate. It looks similar to acting, you act as if you were the one defending that posture, I love that. No wonder I have to keep in check some of my narcissistic and self aggrandizing traits and thoughts 🙂.
What I think I could've done better was: Speaking slower and maybe being almost completely calm and pulling more power moves since this debate allowed disrespect without overdoing it of course.

I also went to the debate club meeting, man it was cool.

I offered myself to speak two times, first time to present myself first, and second to make a mini debate with experimented guys who do proffesional debates and other guy who is more versed than me in the matter. It was a 2 vs 2, the subject: "We have discovered alien life, should we speak to them?" Our point was not to, the others were to do it.

One of them from the other team (he was in favor of comunicating with aliens) used 1492 as an example of why communication is important and his teamate said that submission was the best option.

Here's what I said, overall:

Reframed 1492 as an example of how language differences caused massive death and destruction. Man I was thinking about PU while doing this :)
Rejecting humiliation and submission as an option to defend/deal against alien life. "We simply aren't going to humiliate the human race and be submissive to defend ourselves, we aren't going to"
Proposing to delay action while improving our defenses and communication
Why didn't aliens contact us first? Because they must know we know about them.
Do they have good intentions, probably not and initiating contact is risky.
Saying: "submission is not an option, I'm sorry" that I'm sorry of course was a power move :)
Rejecting a question from the enemy team while talking (because of course it's a cover attack) with a "no thank you", most people laughed (we were about 15 people) and I kept speaking so +1. I took this from a video John posted on the funny videos section if I recall correctly hahaha.

Also my status in the debate club is rising, most of them clapped when I finished and our posture won, my partner did good but he was a bit nervous and talked a bit too fast without making what I consider to be "solid arguments", I would say my point was the one that changed things, btw when deciding who won around 8 people voted in our favor while only 1 voted in their favor.

So overall a great day :D, the best part is that I've just started and I can and will improve a lot, my love for the limelight is going to be really useful in this kind of debate. It looks similar to acting, you act as if you were the one defending that posture, I love that. No wonder I have to keep in check some of my narcissistic and self aggrandizing traits and thoughts 🙂.

What I think I could've done better was: Speaking slower and maybe being almost completely calm and pulling more power moves since this debate allowed disrespect without overdoing it of course.

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#163 · November 14, 2023, 7:32 pm

Also: check Power Protecting again, I sometimes pull power moves without realizing it or without being completely aware I'm doing it.

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#164 · November 14, 2023, 9:33 pm

Quote from Kavalier on November 14, 2023, 9:33 pm
Bravo, Power Duck! Man, you're on fire. Congrats on winning the debate and on your interactions!
A quick thought regarding this interaction:
Quote from Power Duck on November 14, 2023, 7:05 pm
PD: man I hit that girl with my backpack getting out.
Him: yeah I've seen you
Him: well, you rizzling in the bus?
PD: what-is-rizzling
Him: flirting
PD while smirking: so speaking to girls is flirting to you?
Him: hahaha, no that's something that can be seen, even my friend who doesn't know you told me
PD: so when you speak to every girl you're flirting huh?
[...]
(OFF topic: haha you describing him as "the biggest psychological damage to me in my life" and calling him "him" recalled me of His Infernal Majesty. By the way, don't go through that the link, it'll reveal my dubious tastes for cartoons)

Here I think you were stuck for too long in the flirting vs not flirting battle. I believe it's something to avoid because (1) it makes it look like it is a big deal and (2) it makes you lose the opportunity to bond with HIM (now from a position of power). Perhaps something like:
Him: hahaha, no that's something that can be seen, even my friend who doesn't know you told me
PD: haha sure [nonverbals: you're not believing]. So, how is it going, man?
Then just change the subject to whatever.
By the way, he seems indeed to have good frame control. Here is where I think he switched the table on you (which I think you also identified):
Him: you were doing good flirting that's something I saw, it was evident
From that moment on, it was positive judge all along. I personally am not offended by this kind of judge and don't consider this a red flag, but rather a sign that he's power aware and possibly high value (when it's genuine and not manipulative, I see "judging" as a sign that the person has critical thinking skills, which I appreciate. Caveat: my opinion might be the minority regarding this, so I'd also like to read other forum members' take on it). I believe most damage from judges come from falling prey to the "rewards" and start acting like you have to prove yourself to HIM. Watch out for the previous history between you and him, though, in case his power moves manifest again.

Bravo, Power Duck! Man, you're on fire. Congrats on winning the debate and on your interactions!

A quick thought regarding this interaction:

Quote from Power Duck on November 14, 2023, 7:05 pm
PD: man I hit that girl with my backpack getting out.
Him: yeah I've seen you
Him: well, you rizzling in the bus?
PD: what-is-rizzling
Him: flirting
PD while smirking: so speaking to girls is flirting to you?
Him: hahaha, no that's something that can be seen, even my friend who doesn't know you told me
PD: so when you speak to every girl you're flirting huh?
[...]

(OFF topic: haha you describing him as "the biggest psychological damage to me in my life" and calling him "him" recalled me of His Infernal Majesty. By the way, don't go through that the link, it'll reveal my dubious tastes for cartoons)

Here I think you were stuck for too long in the flirting vs not flirting battle. I believe it's something to avoid because (1) it makes it look like it is a big deal and (2) it makes you lose the opportunity to bond with HIM (now from a position of power). Perhaps something like:

Him: hahaha, no that's something that can be seen, even my friend who doesn't know you told me
PD: haha sure [nonverbals: you're not believing]. So, how is it going, man?

Then just change the subject to whatever.

By the way, he seems indeed to have good frame control. Here is where I think he switched the table on you (which I think you also identified):

Him: you were doing good flirting that's something I saw, it was evident

From that moment on, it was positive judge all along. I personally am not offended by this kind of judge and don't consider this a red flag, but rather a sign that he's power aware and possibly high value (when it's genuine and not manipulative, I see "judging" as a sign that the person has critical thinking skills, which I appreciate. Caveat: my opinion might be the minority regarding this, so I'd also like to read other forum members' take on it). I believe most damage from judges come from falling prey to the "rewards" and start acting like you have to prove yourself to HIM. Watch out for the previous history between you and him, though, in case his power moves manifest again.

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#165 · November 14, 2023, 11:35 pm

Quote from Power Duck on November 14, 2023, 7:05 pm
Him: well, you rizzling in the bus?

PD, I was intrigued by this word and had to google it. What is the actual term he used in Spanish?

It's not in the dictionaries I consulted, and "internet" definitions are inconsistent (often just "real", though in this context it doesn't make sense), but one (not a good source, though) has "to creep" as one definition.

It's important intel, because if the term has a negative connotation, then it's a bad start for him (framing you as a creep from the outset) and changes completely the analysis in my last paragraph.

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#166 · November 15, 2023, 10:27 pm

Power Duck, wanted to make a note relatie to the disappeared posts.

I saw your reply saying that you were disappointed and expected better.

Now I wasn't there so I may be totally wrong.
But it's possible that a mindset switch may help.

It wasn't up to them to be warm and supportive when you talked abotu power dynamics, power moves, and manipulation.

It was up to you to frame it properly and resist the first attack wave and "normalize" that conversation, removing the stigma around those topics.

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#167 · November 15, 2023, 10:40 pm

Hmm, yeah, thinking that way isn't probably what my ego wants but fuck it, I think you are in point. Thanks.

When I started talking about it I sensed that the the mood was going a bit low, party pooping said in another way, so it's possible that them making fun of me was a way to try to make the conv more light although there were other uncalled power moves which intention wasn't to bring the mood up but actually worsened and further isolated me "figuratively" from the group, us vs him dynamic said in another way. Also part of the reason of the mood going down was because of how I introduced and framed it and/or because it's a rare topic that definitely goes out of the ordinary.

And yeah resisting the attack was definitely up to me. Putting a more exaggerated power move and explaining why it's disrespectful may would've made it easier, still this experience today made me remember things I had forgotten about trusting people.

P.S:

I copy and pasted my posts in WA, so all good. Will post them again tomorrow.

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#168 · November 19, 2023, 11:03 pm

Quote from Kavalier on November 14, 2023, 11:35 pm
Quote from Power Duck on November 14, 2023, 7:05 pm
Him: well, you rizzling in the bus?
PD, I was intrigued by this word and had to google it. What is the actual term he used in Spanish?
It's not in the dictionaries I consulted, and "internet" definitions are inconsistent (often just "real", though in this context it doesn't make sense), but one (not a good source, though) has "to creep" as one definition.
It's important intel, because if the term has a negative connotation, then it's a bad start for him (framing you as a creep from the outset) and changes completely the analysis in my last paragraph.

Thanks Kavalier.

About the term, he used the word "riseando" which I've never heard in my life, it doesn't exist. Probably comes from the slang "rizz" which means flirting skills.

Although his comment could've been a value adding and empowering one, there are several things that make me believe it was power taking:

His tone.
The fact that the conv with this girl wasn't obviously a flirting one (we talked about communism)

There's also something he said that i didn't wrote:

Him: I've seen you flirting with her talking about communism.
Me: see who flirts talking about communism?
Him: If I saw someone talking about communism and doing good I would put him in an altar.
We exchanged some jokes after that

Thinking about it it could be empowering but his tone didn't sound nice.

Edit: finally posted the lost posts.

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#169 · November 19, 2023, 11:04 pm

Quote from Power Duck on November 19, 2023, 11:04 pm
Dont talk again about beliefs/power moves with power movers 🙂 :

So today I ate in college with a new group of "friends" (I met them around 2 years ago but now I hang out more with them in college), they pull some power moves on each other, but nothing crazy.

I talked with them about sexual manipulation and they said that I shouldn't get a gf or that I was crazy/ had been burnt in the past. It's true that I framed sexual manipulation in quite a funny way and being blunt and ballsy, still that's part of my humor and of how I speak and I stated a couple of times that I don't think like that but that some people do.

I told them that I study manipulation and how manipulators operate and think in order to explain why I know those things, they took that with quite some humor, which I didn't appreciate, and also asked me for some marks of manipulation, I gave an example of how apologies could be used to manipulate:
They took that anecdote as an opportunity to one up me :). Framing me as crazy, weird and paranoid with their body language :), one for example was looking at me without nodding as I explained, when I finished he kept staring without nodding or doing anything as if saying "ok ok you're fucking crazy", a girl as a "joke" actually described gaslighting to which I said that it was a valid example to which one said: "ah, yeah....... I know a guy to which that happened" the frame after that given how he said it was that it was a complete lie, that it was a comment he said as to "act as if he was saving face" but actually framed me as crazy.
The guy who said that he knew someone, after that started apologizing to one of the girls for everything, and both of them laughed about it.
Anyway, this isn't something I can't overcome or deal with, I choose to behave nicely with those people without pulling power moves and defending myself when the time came, sometimes I even defend one of the group when someone one ups them. They are gonna get a different treatment from now on.
Changing identity makes dealing with disempowerment way easier, this isn't anymore a proof that I'm not who I want to be, but rather a mistake that's easy to fix.

P.S:
It's quite ironic that they used the apologies part (which they found funny), as a way to "manipulate" me in order to boost their status. Saying thats stupid to consider something manipulation in order to manipulate the social status balance.....

Dont talk again about beliefs/power moves with power movers 🙂 :

So today I ate in college with a new group of "friends" (I met them around 2 years ago but now I hang out more with them in college), they pull some power moves on each other, but nothing crazy.

I talked with them about sexual manipulation and they said that I shouldn't get a gf or that I was crazy/ had been burnt in the past. It's true that I framed sexual manipulation in quite a funny way and being blunt and ballsy, still that's part of my humor and of how I speak and I stated a couple of times that I don't think like that but that some people do.

I told them that I study manipulation and how manipulators operate and think in order to explain why I know those things, they took that with quite some humor, which I didn't appreciate, and also asked me for some marks of manipulation, I gave an example of how apologies could be used to manipulate:

They took that anecdote as an opportunity to one up me :). Framing me as crazy, weird and paranoid with their body language :), one for example was looking at me without nodding as I explained, when I finished he kept staring without nodding or doing anything as if saying "ok ok you're fucking crazy", a girl as a "joke" actually described gaslighting to which I said that it was a valid example to which one said: "ah, yeah....... I know a guy to which that happened" the frame after that given how he said it was that it was a complete lie, that it was a comment he said as to "act as if he was saving face" but actually framed me as crazy.

The guy who said that he knew someone, after that started apologizing to one of the girls for everything, and both of them laughed about it.

Anyway, this isn't something I can't overcome or deal with, I choose to behave nicely with those people without pulling power moves and defending myself when the time came, sometimes I even defend one of the group when someone one ups them. They are gonna get a different treatment from now on.

Changing identity makes dealing with disempowerment way easier, this isn't anymore a proof that I'm not who I want to be, but rather a mistake that's easy to fix.

P.S:

It's quite ironic that they used the apologies part (which they found funny), as a way to "manipulate" me in order to boost their status. Saying thats stupid to consider something manipulation in order to manipulate the social status balance.....

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#170 · November 19, 2023, 11:13 pm

Use more warmth and collaborative and philosopher frames from now on.

Recently I've seen that I'm higher power, however I have a bad habit of setting not so good frames for others as well as pulling power moves out of habit (it started as "I'll pull this little tasking since you'll probably pull power moves in the future"). Long story short I power protect less than I used to and usually end up in lose-lose frame battles.

So to sum things up:

Have a value adding mindset/intention, so you unconsciously behave that way.
Bear frame setting in mind so you don't set negative frames unintentionally.
Use philosopher frames when you disagree, eg:(your point is valid because sometimes x but I see that mine can be applied when y, so I believe both perspectives can be applied depending on the situation)
Bear in mind who's a taker and who's not, behave like a cool guy with fellas who barely pull power moves, and be more subtle with power players if needed.
When explaining others talk similar to how you do in the forum. ("I think, I believe, It may be") without overdoing it.

P.S:

Today I read a book summary: "the social status game" or something like that, apparently sometimes status paired with prosocial behaviour wins dominance since the former adds value. I get the feeling that a value adding mindset might do the trick to boost my social status and game.

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