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Interesting case study, and I agree this type of character should be conceptualized in a good term.

traits:
Nasty and opportunistic to those that they perceive as weaker or below themselves and a pathetic bootlicker to everyone they perceive as higher up, even if they perceived them recently in the former catgory. And no actual self respect or consistency.

Some ideas:

- fragile abuser
- Kick-down-Suck-up
- Sheep in wolfs clothing
- balloon-hyena
- reverse blowfish

Also interesting - are there indicators on their profile for this type, so one can avoid them?

If you had a few of them (or value-takers in general) and compare their fiverr profiles with actual cool guys, any patterns noticable?

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Lucio Buffalmano

I googled if there is any name for this kind of behavior and seems like there is a commonly used name, it's called 'Kiss up kick down (KUKD).

And apart from their behaviour in official hierarchies, this type of behaviour can often be seen in informal settings too (though the fact remains that most social circles have hierarchies).

It's a very common sight to see this kind of behaviour subtly raising it's ugly head.

For example :-

1) People in a group getting more excited and exiting conversation with one member to talk to another person who just arrived. (Not a simple nod but an overt greeting).

The difference can be seen in the way they greet different people too.

2) Difference in the way they react to similar jokes. Like laughing when one person says it and having a poker face or 'WTF was that face' when another person says it.

3) another observation I have seen is when a group assembles for something and not all members are here a 'KUKD' person asks specifically by name whether a certain person is here and doesn't ask about any other missing members.

 

 

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Lucio Buffalmano
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 24, 2022, 8:22 am

New definition for "bitch behavior"?

This type of "bitch behavior" of course is part of power, status, etc.

But it might deserve its new sub-scale category.

It's a specific sub-category with specific types of behavior that send "bitch" signals.

This is one example, going from tough-talker to begging.
But there are more.
We had "crying wolf" here once, and that also sends "bitch" signals (Stef called it "rule of cool" back then).

Thanks for sharing this story, Lucio!

This reminds me of some movies I've seen set in medieval times.

The main antagonist would be a "cowardly prince." He would be tough, confident, and even sometimes abusive when he's in a position of power. But, when the main protagonist dethrones him, he would become cowardly, submissive, and beg on his hands and knees for mercy.

Other similar movies show a "foolish King" sharing a similar dynamic. You'd see a King who's overly dominant and loses the goodwill of the people for his low-warmth behavior. But, when the people finally reach a position of power over him, the King would backtrack and beg for his life.

I think Anon's "kick-down, suck-up" is a good description of this turkey-like attitude.

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Lucio Buffalmano
Quote from Anon on January 24, 2022, 12:49 pm

Also interesting - are there indicators on their profile for this type, so one can avoid them?

If you had a few of them (or value-takers in general) and compare their fiverr profiles with actual cool guys, any patterns noticable?

Not too many, it was a new seller.

But while the project was underway he received a negative review.

Reviews can be manipulated in the positive, or subject to relatively easy attack by competitors / haters, but it's still a good point to start from.

In terms of personality in real life, I think they're relatively easy to spot.
As long as you can see them around higher-power and lower power individuals, you can quickly get an idea.

These types of characters are also one of the reasons why you only truly judge characters when they're power-up.

Now, to be sure, everyone shifts behavior depending on how much power they have.
And, often, that's simply just smart/rational.

But how much one shifts, and how nasty / manipulative one gets is what makes the difference.

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Anon
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Quote from Growfast on January 24, 2022, 1:53 pm

I googled if there is any name for this kind of behavior and seems like there is a commonly used name, it's called 'Kiss up kick down (KUKD).

And apart from their behaviour in official hierarchies, this type of behaviour can often be seen in informal settings too (though the fact remains that most social circles have hierarchies).

Yes, you're right, it's a stock English expression.

We also discussed here about its more Machiavellian version by more astute players.

Because there's a stock expression that overlaps enough, it probably makes no sense to come up with a "new name" for power-up / power-down behavioral change as that would complicate things.
It might make sense though to expand that definition with signals and strategies around them.

The "bitch" is yet a bit different as it gives off sneakier vibes and can make men feel disgusted.

I'll leave it for now and eventually come back if if we see some more examples / videos.

Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 25, 2022, 8:33 am
Quote from Anon on January 24, 2022, 12:49 pm

Also interesting - are there indicators on their profile for this type, so one can avoid them?

If you had a few of them (or value-takers in general) and compare their fiverr profiles with actual cool guys, any patterns noticable?

Not too many, it was a new seller.

But while the project was underway he received a negative review.

Reviews can be manipulated in the positive, or subject to relatively easy attack by competitors / haters, but it's still a good point to start from.

I once read a post by some quite successfull PU guy, and whenever he did online-dating and had a bad or even awful date, he looked up her profile again, looking for subtle clues that could have given away (whatever the issue was).

I think this is an awesome approach and could be applied to all sorts of things online, and even in the other way round, what tends to give away great people? However sometimes one (or at least I) tend to overlook the basics, like reviews as you suggest, even if they could be manipulated, but I agree they're still a good starting point.

 

In terms of personality in real life, I think they're relatively easy to spot.
As long as you can see them around higher-power and lower power individuals, you can quickly get an idea.

These types of characters are also one of the reasons why you only truly judge characters when they're power-up.

Now, to be sure, everyone shifts behavior depending on how much power they have.
And, often, that's simply just smart/rational.

But how much one shifts, and how nasty / manipulative one gets is what makes the difference.

Fully agree, great point. I think you recommended somewhere to witness your dates behavior towards the waiters and other people being situationally power-down, putting this general rule into practice.

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Lucio Buffalmanoleaderoffun
Quote from Anon on January 26, 2022, 11:01 am

I once read a post by some quite successfull PU guy, and whenever he did online-dating and had a bad or even awful date, he looked up her profile again, looking for subtle clues that could have given away (whatever the issue was).

I think this is an awesome approach and could be applied to all sorts of things online, and even in the other way round, what tends to give away great people? However sometimes one (or at least I) tend to overlook the basics, like reviews as you suggest, even if they could be manipulated, but I agree they're still a good starting point.

That's pretty cool indeed!

I used to keep track of interactions and had a box for "5 minutes impression".

Then I'd go back and compare notes to see if I "got the person right".

And yes, checking her behavior with people who are not you -and especially the ones who are power down- is a great way of assessing characters.

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Anon
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Just some updates - no real lessons learned here

Back to Europe in the last days and joggling many things at once.

Including some social catching-ups and planning some minor construction work.

That kept me somewhat less present in the forum.
On the other hand, I've noticed that several guys have stepped their game to such a level that I wasn't even needed :).

Did some more dating coaching

Just came back from a good session of dating coaching.

The coach is one of those types of "approach any girl you like, no matter if in groups or if guys".
He did some demonstration for me where at times I was thinking "what the fuck is he going to do in that situation, there's no fucking way, it's a 99.9% crash and burn").

He also focuses on "inner game" -or, basically "self-development" and mental development-.
I was skeptical as I wanted to focus on actual interactions, but I'm glad I gave it full attention. His approach to addressing social pressure was really great.

Also, he strapped me with audio equipment and recorded me, which was also great.

Still working on Seduction University

Most of my TPM time is still going to Seduction University.

Now I'm tackling the real-life case studies and breakdowns for dates.
Two lessons are already out, and I think they're really good and the 3rd one is coming out soon.

Met "Leader of Fun" from the TPM community

And I've also met "Leader of Fun" yesterday.

The first guy I meet in person from the TPM community (there were a few close calls with John in Berlin but I  wasn't there and Matthew in SG but SG closed for omicron).

It was a great time getting to know him and talk/brainstorm, share life stories with him.

LOF dropped some real golden nuggets, including entrepreneurship-wise and how to possibly expand TPM's offering, and I've duly taken notes.
That also hit home that TPM is probably even more under-monetized than I even thought it was, albeit that's not a real issue for me now.
But the idea along the lines of TPM's group-coaching is really a great opportunity that I'll chew on (thanks man!).

Also, thanks to LOF I just ordered today a laptop holder for standing-up work, a "mechanical keyboard" (didn't even what it was before I met him), and a mouse.
Me and my (postural) health say a big thank you -I don't know what the hell I was thinking, doing posture exercises and then torturing my wrists-.

Hopefully more real-life catch-ups will follow.

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ValentinTransitionedBelleaderoffun
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Haha you ll love the spring KB.  When you're working hard the machine gun clickety-clack sounds like you're on the Lucio train.

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Lucio Buffalmano
Quote from Transitioned on January 31, 2022, 9:49 pm

Haha you ll love the spring KB.  When you're working hard the machine gun clickety-clack sounds like you're on the Lucio train.

Ahaha yes, working was always supposed to make noise, mentally reinforcing that you're doing shit 😀

Otherwise, it's like that philosophical question of the tree falling in a forest: did it even fall / are you even doing anything? 🙂

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