We already know that different, sometimes even opposing dating strategies can all be effective, if done well.
And the same is true for the type of men, or types of seducers.
There are different types of seducers who can all be successful occupying different niches.
When it comes to success, the key is not so much in the specific niche one inhabits, but in being high value -and high SMV– within that niche.
So here are the types of successful seducers:
1. Sensitive Artist
The sensitive artist doesn’t even seem to be interested in women.
And that’s exactly what makes him even more attractive.
The sensitive artist is lost in his world.
So lost, that it’s women who need to pursue him for some real-world action.
- Slightly depressed
- Women chase him: since he rarely takes an active role in seduction, women are often forced to invest and chase more
- Women turn providers: if he is the poor type of artist some women will forego demands for resources and even do the providing themselves
- Highest quality women prefer different types: especially for long-term relationships. Many sensitive types end up with dysfunctional women. Even a top 1% artist like Kurt Cobain ended up with a basketcase
- Potential for losing women’s (respect): the struggling artist abdicates typical male responsibilities that some women expect. If he brings home no bacon, some women will eventually turn on him
- Potential for toxic relationships: if he attracts the crazy type of artist… It’s gonna be fireworks.
Her: (shoots gun)
Him: You’re going to kill yourself
Her: I don’t wanna live
Welcome to the life of the crazy “artist” -where “artist” is often just a convenient cover for “crazy”-.
Women He Attracts:
- Struggling artists: they both help each other escape the reality of being poor and unemployed
- Groupies: only if he is a successful artist, of course
The more depressed and less effective at life tend to attract the “women who love too much” type (Norwood, 1985).
- The Dandy: the narcissist type of artist
- The Hipster: the non-artist, but likes to dress like one
- Drug-addict: mixing arts and (heavy) drugs
- The Rebel: they both seek to live on the society’s fringes
Professionally, you might consider “the rocker” an artist.
But when it comes to seduction, he is very different.
The rocker is not brooding, depressed, or lost in his world.
- Stage effect: the nights he performs almost automatically put him at the top of the social pile. And that’s true even for less famous rockers
- Assumed preselection: women assume that because he’s in a band, he must be very successful with women
- Less appealing to women looking for stability: women who are looking for a boyfriend might disqualify the rocker as a long-term partner (but some of them might still want him for a night)
Women He Attracts:
The rocker has a large seductive appeal.
And he has the largest pull on:
- Groupies: the “limelight effect” is always stronger on a subset of women
- Promiscuous & highly sexual women: they feel free to embrace their full sexual self with a rocker type
- Romantic women: if he sings ballads or love stories
3. “Overachiever” Alpha
A new trend in the male dating advice, but an old seducer type.
- Prioritizes his purpose over women
- Prioritizes self-development over women
- Never chases
- Refuses to entertain games women play
- Get women as a consequence of his sexual market value
The old PUA “lifestyle game” strategy sought to get women through an attractive and rich lifestyle.
The “overachiever” does the same, but it comes natural to who he is. He gets women not just for his lifestyle, but as a consequence of who is and who he becomes -a tycoon-.
That’s why the alpha male chases little: he does not put women first.
- Gets high-quality women: high-quality women prefer all-around successful men (duh!)
- Dates with power: the alpha male enters his relationships with lots of power
- Reaches higher stations in life: by putting his purpose first, the alpha male tends to rise high in society
- Little time for self-development: when the only goal becomes is a bigger bottom line, the overachiever has no time for other self-development efforts. He doesn’t learn social skills and power dynamics, so he can also be a “beta overachiever”, and clueless when it comes to socialization and women (see Zuckerberg, Elon Musk)
- Prisoner of a fragile ego: some overachievers build their ego around “being rich” or “being alpha”, and that’s an inherently fragile ego. He can take rejections too personally, take fewer shorts, and self-reject
- Unbalanced relationships of master and puppet: high-power overachievers tend to be driven alpha males who demand total power in their relationships. Some strong women aren’t comfortable with that (not an issue if you prefer submissive women)
You can see it in Trump’s relationship:
Trump: Give me your hand
Melania: (swats his hand away)
When you try to “alpha” more independent-minded women and you don’t have their full respect and admiration, you end up with lots of arguments and a catty, rebellious woman (and it’s his fault, not hers).
Women He Attracts:
- Most women: successful overachievers have a very large appeal
- Submissive women: submissive women make for better partners to alphas, since they gladly embrace their subordinate role
- Traditional women who seek a strong male figure
But also some feminist women who hate him are sometimes at the same time turned on by him.
Is the outlaw appealing?
Let’s hear from an outlaw about his history with women (Norwood, 1985):
When you’ve done time you learn that some women think you’re a creep and have nothing to do with you.
But there are other women who get turned on by the whole idea. It fascinates them. They see you as big and bad and they get real seductive, trying to tame you. Or they think you’ve been hurt and they feel sorry for you and want to help you.
The outlaw is a polarizer: it repels many women, but it attracts a few of them.
Some researchers speculated that the outlaw appeal is also environment-dependent (Fallon, 2013). Specifically, the outlaw appeal grows in times of violence and upheavals, and it decreases in times of peace and safety.
- Polarizing effect: you get clear-cut attraction or rejection, and don’t waste time on maybes
- Carnal attraction: for the women who are into it, it can make for raw attraction
Otherwise though, not many advantages.
- Poor for high-quality women: high-quality women usually go for men at the top of the pile and outlaws are usually not high-up in society
- Few women to choose from: higher status outlaws are on top of male-dominated gangs, with a small pond of women to fish from
- Success is capped: the success you obtain from within society, both sexual and non-sexual, is superior to whatever you can obtain from outside of society
- Aggressive-looking men scare most women away: Starting a cold approach with a smile is often better than going in at “high intensity” (for example, Adelyn Birch says the psychopath stare is a turn on once intimate, but scary during dating)
Women He Attracts:
- Repressed women: some of these women feel the quickest way to recover ground on all the life they didn’t live is to swing to the extreme
- Women angry at their parents: getting with an outlaw type is the biggest revenge against their parents
- “Prisoners’ wives”: a subset of “women who love too much”. It’s a group of anxious-attachment women who are too afraid of abandonment, so they pick men who are physically unavailable and who can never leave them
- Fearful women: paradoxically, fearful women might feel safer with commanding and dominant men. And the most extreme ones might feel safer with an actual criminal
- Hybristophiliacs: a psychological umbrella term for all the various subsets of women who are attracted to violent criminals
The Serial Killer Myth: Don’t Believe The Hype
It’s a common misunderstanding to overestimate the seductive power of violent criminals.
It’s mostly fame that attracts groupies, and there is only a handful of Ted Bundies who get famous. Most others are nameless, lonely criminals.
- The Fighter: violence is generally a poor dating strategy. Winning fights matters most in species where the female has no say in picking a mate, and that’s not the case for humans (Ridley, 1993).
- The Pusher
- The Drug User
- The Rebel: the tamer side of the outlaw, and the “cool” kid in high-school. The rebel sub-communicates the fortitude to buck the non-written “social laws”, while only breaking smaller laws. It’s a popular type in high-school, and he attracts rebel women who don’t have the courage to rebel themselves
In my teen and early 20’s I was a rebel type:
That made me kinda “cool”.
But most top women still prefer the top-of-the-pile from within society.
5. Pick-Up Artist
The pick-up artist is not afraid of chasing women.
Indeed, that’s all he does.
He approaches a lot, talks to a lot of women, and women generally take a very high priority in his life -often, the only priority in their lives-.
Among the traits of the PUA:
- Lots of cold approaches
- Focus on games
- Mostly verbal games (push-pull, yes ladders, routines, sex innuendos, “couple frames”, etc.)
- Lots of smiles and jokes
- Higher energy
- Very social
- Works well for cold approaches: the high energy helps women snap out of autopilot, and his general friendliness and smiles can help ease possible initial fears
- Many approaches equals many opportunities: the pick-up artist, more at ease with rejections, can take lots of shots, and put the law of the large numbers on his side
- Can make lots of approaches seem natural at parties and social circles: with high energy and talking to a lot of people, men included, he can approach women without looking like he’s hitting on every single girl (a generally unattractive and low-power behavior)
- Well-rehearsed: the many approaches make him socially lubricated and, in the best of cases, smooth
- It’s lower power: by walking to a girl first, the PUA is almost automatically lower in power. Over-smiling and joking can also make him lower power
- Gets lots of shit tests: PUAs can come across as somewhat fake, unnatural, and big game-players. Women wonder “is this guy for real?”, and throw plenty of roadblocks his way
- Branded as immature: women and men alike tend to think of PUAs as immature, which partially makes sense, since many men go through a “chasing women” phase and then grow out of it. That makes it harder for the PUA to gain social status
- Wastes lots of time on women: sessions of approaching women require lots of time and investment, and pick-up artists don’t always place enough high value on their time
- The party animal: high energy, happy, and hyper-social. They get lots of attention and can sport a beer belly while still enjoying success with the party crowd. Some PUAs try to go down this road and be the life of the party
- The wealthy womanizer: wealthy womanizers usually lead a lifestyle that gets women to them, but they might also dabble in cold approaches
- The natural: he never set out to be a PUA, but he sometimes behaves a bit like one
Yes, muscles and definition are attractive.
Only thin and scrawny jealous guys deny that.
And yes, be it because muscular men are more confident, or because they are more attractive, they also tend to have more sex partners (Kordsmeier, 2018).
- Carnal attraction: attraction based body type is primal, which can make for hot sex
- Fast sex with right targets: the muscular man can easily date as a pure lover with the subtypes of women who are into muscles. Sex happens quickly
- Time-intensive: getting big takes time, effort, and dedication. I agree with the guys who say that “you shouldn’t lift if your primary goal is getting women”
- Gym over-focus equals rounded individual: there is only so much time in a day. If most of your time goes to sets and protein shakes, if your holiday choice revolves around “where you can find the closest gym”, you are bound to lose out on other attractive traits
- Turns off certain types of girls: it’s a crock that muscles only attract superficial women. But you do attract less of certain types of women, such as hipsters and intellectuals, for example
- Can make some women feel insecure: women are very body-conscious. Some really shredded men can make some women feel insecure in the relationship. It can be fixed by upping availability
- Too much is… Too much: a study with 141 women in their 20’s found that women preferred “men with moderate muscularity”. This is an example of what I call the “threshold effect”.
Men fail to realize the “threshold effect” because there is no threshold on physical and masculinity traits among men. This is probably because, from an evolutionary point of view, male competition has had a stronger effect on stereotypically male traits than female choice had (Puts, 2010).
Women He Attracts:
If we are talking about well-toned bodies, then the appeal is very large.
A few exceptions apply for women who prefer “cuddle monsters” and “dad bobs”, but it’s a minority.
Lifters enjoy an especially large pull with:
- Female fitness models:
- Female bodybuilders: same as above, times ten
- MILFs: older women in general are more attracted to muscular bodies than younger ones
- The fighter: getting big is a way of communicating “I have physical power”, so there is some overlap with fighters
- The jock: the jock invests in his physical conditions, but his seduction power is more about social status than pure physique
- The narcissist: some lifters are (body) narcissists
7. Feminine Man
Some are surprised that men with (a touch of) femininity can be attractive.
But alas, welcome to a world where personal tastes matter, and every rule has its exception.
And I get a sense that it’s men who fancy themselves as masculine -or who wish to be masculine- who deny the appeal of the feminine man (I suppose they don’t know about boybands Titanic?).
Indeed many men look down on and resent the feminine type.
They don’t consider him a “real man”.
And maybe there’s also a tad of homophobia in some.
So, OK, the feminine type isn’t going to be super successful among men.
But he can take solace in the large subset of women who find them attractive.
- Very polarizing: women who like them will really like him. The attraction can be very sexual, too
- Struggles to climb social hierarchies: people don’t like very masculine women and don’t respect very feminine men. That can prevent make it difficult to climb social hierarchies
Women He Attracts:
- Younger women: there are a few more mature women who also like more feminine men, but it’s a minority
- Women in more peaceful societies: peace = no need for a stronger defender makes
- Fearful women: whereas very manly men can seem scary, the feminine type puts some women at ease (Greene, 2001)
- Bi-curious women: the feminine type attracts bi-curious women. And for the record, many women are bi-curious
- The dandy: the dandy has a touch of femininity
- The narcissist: over-concern for appearances and people’s opinions adds a touch of femininity to many narcissists
- The hypersexed bisexual: the hypersexed bisexual oozes sex and “swings both ways”
Russel Brand, just like other glam-rock players, has marked elements of femininity.
He said it himself in an interview:
Russel Brand: Women lower their guard and feel at ease around me because they think I’m gay
Is knowledge attractive?
Or, to be more precise, just a little.
Being an expert in any field doesn’t hurt, of course, but it doesn’t help that much either.
So, what’s attractive about the intellectual?
The intellectual is attractive because of the intellectual dominance he possesses over people which, in turn, is an important subset of general social dominance.
The most Machiavellian intellectuals also take a judge role, giving them even more social power (see Seduction University).
Women He Attracts:
- Father complex-women:
- Absent father women
- Women who never knew their father
- Father admirers (and seek someone similar)
- Sapiosexuals: yes, it exists (Gignac et. al., 2018), albeit it’s more about perceived intelligence -and intellectual dominance, of course- than actual IQ points
- Anxious women: the calm serenity of the intellectual type soothes them
To understand and replicate the seductive pull of the intellectual, see this example:
See Seduction University
Put all of those together, and she was smitten in love within minutes.
- The professor: attractive because of his power position, but also because he can teach children and help them succeed in life (Miller, 2005)
- The philosopher: less about teaching, and more about thinking
- The writer: at the intersection between the artist and the intellectual
The charmer charms everyone.
And especially so the ladies.
The good social charmers are:
- Socially skilled
- Socially confident
- High status
- Intelligent (or intelligent-sounding)
- Verbally gifted
- Well dressed
- Gets high-quality women: he is well-liked by everyone, advances within hierarchies, and gets both social power and resources. That vibes well with high-quality women
- Women want to stay with him: women want to stick with a charmer because he is a genuine high-quality guy
- All-terrain, 360° seducer: the beauty of the charmer is that he is not bound to any hierarchy. Because of his skills, he can move into any social group and be successful
- If he has no edge, he might be “too nice”: if he focuses too much on being liked, he can come across as too friendly and not sexual and edgy enough
- Can become too unavailable: if he is equally charming to everyone, women might feel he is not interested in them, which leads to self-rejection
Overall though, high-quality charmers who learned power dynamics have few cons since they know how to avoid those pitfalls.
Women He Attracts:
- Most women: if he’s a high-quality charmer, his appeal is one of the broadest of them all
- Edgy types: their seductive pull is not in their social skills, but in their intensity. See for example the eyes of Nikola Tesla, an example of the edgy charismatic type
- Narcissists: some charmers have a touch of narcissism. They became good with people because they like climbing social ladders and being popular
- Refined lovers: refined lovers come across as equally polished and high-value, but are more focused on women. They can be closer to the pick-up artists, and have a touch of narcissism
Narcissism is the most attractive trait of the dark triad.
Narcissists think they’re hot shit.
And because they so well act the part, many women also think they must indeed be hot shit.
As an example of narcissist’s seductive pull, I like the song “You’re So Vain”, in which Carly Simon shares her love story -and heartbreak- with a narcissist:
You walked into the party
Like you were walking on to a yacht
Your hat strategically dipped below one eye
Your scarf, it was apricot
You had one eye in the mirror
As you watched yourself Gavotte
And all the girls dreamed that they’d be your partner
- Maximizes his looks: narcissist tend to take great care of their looks, which helps them maximize a very important trait for seduction
- He shapes reality with his perceptions: by acting like they’re high status, they tend to get high status. When they don’t, some women will still fall for it
- Many narcissists don’t grow: they tend to be poor learners, which keeps them stuck in life (Bernstein, 2000)
- It needs some results or fame: narcissism by itself won’t give you great results. Narcissists who are low-status do better than low-status low-confidence men, but still not great
- When self-image badly outstrips reality, can come across as pathetic: when a narcissist with too high an opinion of himself is actually a loser, he’s twice more of a loser than a “normal” loser
- Can be poor persuaders: seduction and persuasion skills overlap. And many narcissists are poor persuaders because they think that everyone should be able to see their “obvious” genius
Narcissism can be good if you’re around a 6 or 7 on a scale from 1 to 10. Above that, it becomes counterproductive.
Women He Attracts:
- Status-conscious women: they like equally status-conscious men, especially if they appear high-status
- Naive women: they confuse narcissism for real value. Please read here on naive self-help
- Social climbers: they want to ride on the narcissist’s social clout, and manipulate him with the compliments and adulation the narcissist craves
These seducer types are equally effective, but we can analyze them in quicker format:
- The pimp / psychopath (not endorsed by TPM): pimps overlap with abusive men and psychopaths. Their “game” is about total control, operant conditioning through punishments and few rewards, and emotional dependency with judge frames.
Here’s an example of a guy teaching others how he does it on “ask the red pill” (though you never who’s making stuff up there):
Besides moral and ethical questions, I don’t recommend the pimp/psychopath style because you tend to get lower quality women.
Also read “Women Who Love Psychopaths” and “are psychopaths successful with women“?
So back to more value-adding styles:
- Alpha male strategy: by putting his purpose first, he seeks to emulate the “overachiever”. It can be an effective style, but potentially limiting and a straightjacket when he becomes over-concerned with “being alpha” and “never chasing”
- The famous man: he isn’t even a seducer, since women just fall into his lap. Fame might be the single biggest “sexual market value hack” available, and fame also turbocharges any lover style we list here
- The passionate romancer: loves women above all, always in love, and always lusting for new adventures. Casanova is the prototype of the passionate romancer. All modern dating coaches (righteously) admonish not to chase, but a passionate romancer is the exception (Prioleau, 2014)
- The sexual seducer: he promises great sex and seeks to arouse women with either sexual talk, or sexual body language.
Sex-based seductions are high-risk and high-reward.
Quick and hot sex is the reward. Driving away women who need a slower build-up -or have hang-ups around sex- is the risk.
Better not try this via text, the risks far outweigh the rewards. It’s far better to allude to sex, but never go caveman via texts:
Competition Among Styles
If so many different styles are effective, why do people argue on what’s “best”?
For a simple reason: people become their style.
And when their style becomes who they are, they are not really promoting or defending a style, but they are promoting and defending themselves (plus, sometimes, their businesses).
As a rule of thumb, the more they have invested, both in time, finances, and self-identity, the less open-minded they will be.
Let’s review the biggest “seduction beef” going on these days:
Alphas VS Pick-Up Artists
The two were bound to distrust each other.
First of all, there are power dynamics.
Whenever someone enters a new circle (alpha male strategies), the old guard will often get defensive (pick-up artists).
Plus, in this case, they also have quite different philosophies.
The alpha male strategist is low in games and high power, and that’s why men more schooled in routines and “verbal game” don’t vibe with it.
Pick-up artist Todd Valentine calls the “alpha male dating tyle” a “disturbing trend” that is “really holding guys back”.
I see his point, and I even partially agree (see the “cons” above). But I think Todd is being too harsh and missing on the power dynamics aspect of dating.
In truth, of course, they are both right.
Both strategies are effective, but they are effective in different ways, in different environments, and with different women.
So you are better off with both.
Which One Should You Go For?
See “Seduction University“.
The Highest-Power Styles
See “Seduction University“.
This is an excerpt from Seduction University, where you find the most practical strategies and examples