At the core of this article, there is this belief:
To be the best you can be, you must move beyond the Red Pill.
This post will help you get into the mindsets of the men who have moved beyond The Red Pill and reached a higher stage in their personal self-development.
Sometimes I will refer to post-Red Pill men as “post red pill”, “high quality leaders” or simply “high quality men”.
So let’s start:
Attitudes Towards Women
The views on women is the most significant differentiator between Red Pill men and post-Red Pill men.
Red Pill Mindset: Women Are ALL Bad & Manipulative (AWALT)
At the heart of Red Pill toxicity is the view of intergender relationships as adversarial.
The Red Pill sees women as:
- Morally inferior to men
- Irrational and less intelligent
- Naturally manipulative and conniving
- Acting always and only on self-interest, which in turn never intersects with male interest
This is an example:
Some men joining the Red Pill were victims of Madonna-whore mindset.
Before they used to believe all women were Madonnas.
But then something unexpected happened in their lives, they join the Red Pill, and now they swing in the opposite direction, happy to justify their anger with the “all women are like that” mantra (ie.: “all women are natural whores”).
They become highly mistrustful of women, and while sometimes mistrust is good, John Gottman’s research showed that protracted mistrust and constant suspicion of other people’s motives leads to loneliness and early death (mostly common in men).
Alpha Fucks, Beta Is Fucked: The Race for Holy Grail Alphaness
Red Pill men believe that the truth is depressing, but it also presents opportunities for those who become “alpha males”.
Alpha males don’t get manipulated: betas do. Alpha males get to do whatever they want.
In Red Pill’s common black and white thinking, it’s either you fuck women by being an alpha, or you get fucked by being a beta.
This Manichean alpha/beta view of life spurs men to seek alpha status at all costs, with consequences that are sometimes more harmful than helpful.
Post-Red Pill Mindset: Women Are The Female of The Human Species, With Their Pros, Cons, Some Baseline Shared Traits & Some Personal Peculiarities
High quality men are not naive.
They know that while male and female interests often overlap, they can also can diverge on some aspects.
Post-Red Pill men believe that there are general and fundamental tendencies in women, men and human beings in general.
In that sense, “AWALT” applies to women, men and humans as well.
But they’ve traveled and experienced enough to know that, on top of those AWALT common tendencies women, just like men, women vary wildly. Both in the positive and in the negative.
They have experienced women who played dread games, who texted them to meet up to celebrate their new “single lives” after they had been hooking up for a month, and women who lied and deceived.
And they have experienced women who want simple lives, craving for 1:1 attachments and a man to take care of.
As a matter of fact, they worried for those women when they themselves weren’t willing to commit.
They wanted to help those women become “badder”, more like male assholes equivalents. They thought that was the best way to help those women, to insulate them from the pains and realities of lives.
In a way, they wanted to make those women more Red Pill.
Then they saw those same women get exactly what they wanted with some other men who wanted the same thing that they wanted.
A loyal, collaborative and mutually supportive relationship.
Here is one example:
I worried she was too into me.
And too nice, too submissive, too “good”.
Dropping gifts in my mailbox, preparing expensive dinners, showing up at my door within 20mins when I told her I got fired (and while I was having another woman over…).
I wanted to expand her options, increase her negotiation power… Make her more like me.
But it’s not what she wanted.
I came to realize that she truly was a “church, home, work” kind of woman, looking for a man to revere and serve.
Now she’s doing the same she was doing with me, with a man who wants the same and was doing the same back to her.
Turns out, seeing her happy, giving it her all to someone else, and making that man’s loyal companion… I wonder if I wasn’t the one who was wrong all along.
That’s the topic for another discussion, but the point here is: Post-Red Pill don’t jump to conclusions based on general tendencies, but focus on getting to know the woman they are interacting with.
They know some women make for (much) better partners than others, and that’s why they want to know who they’re dealing with.
And, as good rational thinkers, do, they are careful not to generalize one single bad or good experience to the whole population.
Attitudes Towards Seduction
Often men enter the Red Pill after a heartbreak or following the momentous self-admission that they are not doing well with women.
The Red Pill promises solutions for both, so the sale is easily done.
Let’s see how that turns out to be.
Red Pill Mindset: Spin Plates, Be An Asshole, Never Develop Feelings
At the core, this is what Red Pill seduction looks like:
Women chase unavailable assholes.
And while there is certainly some truth in that, it’s also a limited view of what works in seduction.
Men starting with the Red Pill often seem to seek self-validation through the “N-count”, or the number or partners one has had (validation-type womanizer).
And there is nothing wrong with seeking lots of partners, the author here has been through it, too.
What’s more debatable though is the rampant objectification of women, called “plate” after Rollo Tomassi’s popular “The Rational Male” book/blog.
Objectification can also be OK, especially during sex, and can be attractive to women.
But continuous personal-objectification can lead to a loss of feelings.
See an example here:
Since women are de-humanized, it’s only nature that game in the Red Pill degrades into manipulation.
Enter mind games such as or “triangulation” and “dread game” instead of earning her admiration and lust with true leadership.
Post-Red Pill Men Mindset: Women Are One of Life’s Pleasures
High quality men might also see seduction as a game.
And they might even joke (or consider) the woman as the “prey”.
But it’s a game just like any other human relationship, and it’s not based on the idea that one party is totally wicked and another party 100% good and honest.
High quality men can thrive in a world of shades of gray, and appreciate women with their flaws and, sometimes, because of their flaws.
Contrary to Red Pill men, some high quality seducers enjoy the feelings and emotional side of seduction the most.
They appreciate or prefer seduction the Casanova style rather than asshole game or the robotic style of PUA.
And they believe that it’s also more effective: true whirlwind romance is an intertwining of souls where physical ecstasy overlaps with romance, in an emotional tango resonating into eternity.
This is the type of seductions I’ve always preferred, and this is what Red Pill misogyny and asshole game will never provide.
What does it mean to be a man?
That’s a major topic of both the manosphere and the Red Pill, where the emphasis is on “being an alpha male”.
Let’s see what it means:
Red Pill Mindset: Be Alpha Or Be Fucked
First rule to be an alpha male:
- Don’t be a nice man.
Red Pill men read “No More Mr. Nice Guy” with the intention of “getting rid” of “nice man” qualities.
But they often overdo it, and end up ditching the traits that can make for collaborative relationships (more on it later).
It’s the same mistake women do BTW.
Women read equivalent books such as “The Power of The Pussy” and “Why Man Love Bitches” with the intention of becoming stronger.
But they often just become angrier, more argumentative, and bitter.
Alpha Males Against Feminazis
One of the reasons why many Red Pill men are misogynists is because they feel under threat by women.
In a way, it’s understandable.
Women are getting better education, earning more, driving their own cars, launching their own companies and, on average, taking on roles and occupations that have been traditionally male.
And they are even “trying” to make it seem like it’s normal and perfectly feminine to do so.
How are men going to feel about that?
This is what Rollo Tomassi, a popular Red Pill author, writes about women “invading” male spaces:
(…) women are inserting themselves into male space in order to enforce the dictates of feminine social primacy
This is the mindset of men who feel like their masculinity is under siege by the “feminine”.
Why do men feel backed into a corner?
Well, think of it this way: if women also aspire to traditionally male values such as “camaraderie”, “entrepreneurship”, “grit”, “courage” or, God forbid, “honor”, what’s left for men to define themselves as men?
Some men, fearing an assault on their spaces and seeking differentiation, get pushed more and more into extreme positions.
Enter, toxic masculinity.
Male values become more extreme, including violence, the denial of feelings and emotions, and the refusal to form partnerships with “these women” who make them feel less of a man.
As they get pushed into extreme positions, men also fire to cover the retreat.
The advancing women become “undatable”, “desperate and alone”, “feminazi” and “unworthy of a true woman”.
The alpha male, the Red Pill ideal, is a mythic figure who stops the female onslaught.
Romantically, he makes women swoon and go back to their submissive and kitten-like selves. At work and in life, he shows women they can’t truly compete with a “real” man. And in the gym, he shows women a man is naturally stronger.
Strong, powerful and unassailable, this is what every Red Pill man aspires to.
For the pussy-starved men, this is their dream-self who slays like nobody’s business.
For the angry ones, this is the man who will serve revenge on a silver platter.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to move towards an ideal, but one of the issues is that the “alpha male ideal” is externally imposed by the community.
The Yoke of External Imposition
“What it means to be a man” for Red Pill men becomes an external imposition of rules of conduct.
Whenever you accept an imposition of what it means to be a man, whether it comes from the community, your woman -or even yourself-, then you place a yoke on yourself.
The external party controls your yoke with some powerful tools:
- Belonging: abide the rules and you’re one of us, disobey and you’re blue pill
- Shame: abide the rules and you’re alpha male; disobey and you’re beta male blue pill
Shaming is also a tool used by women to control men, and it works the same way:
You don’t conform to my description? Then you’re not a “real (alpha) man”. That’s how control works.
Post-Red Pill Mindset: F*ck Your Masculinity Standards, I Make My Rules
High quality men answer with a big “fuck you” to anyone who tells them what a man ought to be.
They don’t like external impositions because they’re content with themselves to the point where they don’t need a group to prop up their ego and self-image.
If they meet a strong woman making lots of money they don’t necessarily feel threatened because they don’t link their self-esteem to either money or career.
If she bench-presses more than they do, still not threatened, because they don’t link their ego to “strength”.
Most of all, enlightened men don’t put themselves any pressure on having to be “alpha”, hitting the gym, “slaying women” or whatever any external authority commands for “being a man”.
High quality men are freer and more resilient because they use more flexible guidelines instead of steadfast rules.
They don’t attach their ego to any specific trait and they embrace complexity instead of black and white.
If they’re on their asses, they’re not even afraid of crying in their room. They know they’ll get going soon anyway.
If they are developing feelings for a woman, they don’t necessarily try to fight it because that would be a “one-itis” and “one-itis are for betas”.
And if they’re hurt, they don’t try to suppress it. They sit with the hurt because they know that, as Ray Dalio said, pain + reflection = growth.
They might even hold dear to that pain, but instead of letting it fuel their hatred like many Red Pill men do, they use it for personal growth (something yours truly routinely does):
Attitudes Towards Others
How do the two relate to others?
In diametrically opposed ways:
Red Pill Mindset: Push Others Down to Go Up
The Red Pill is a huge game of social climbing.
“Alpha male” and “Red Pill” are social currencies that afford or remove status within the Red Pill community.
The community, like most other ideology-based groups, is set up to reinforce the beliefs of the community and to prop up the ego of its participants.
People who are not in the Red Pill are blue pill, and inferior.
That already makes the members feel “better”, as they can point to someone who is “worse”.
And it keeps the community stronger with this unwritten promise: we tell each other we are “better”, stay here and you get to feel better.
There is also an internal struggle for status, of course.
Since the community’s brownie points are delivered based on adherence to “red-pillness” and “alpha-maleness” values and traits, well.. You guessed it, many men are busy proving how alpha and red pill they are.
Post-Red Pill Mindset: I’m Up Already, Could Use Some More Company Here
Top men don’t push people down.
Why should they?
They’re at the top already.
It’s only those at the middle and at the bottom who push others down to climb up.
High quality leaders look at men squabbling for status and think of the “crabs in a bucket” analogy. And they have no interest in entering that bucket.
Albeit high quality men don’t engage and don’t waste time assaulting and ridiculing people below their level, they also know how to effectively maneuver around the threat and come out on top (see Social Power).
That’s what makes them high quality, after all.
Ultimately, when they like someone or when they have enough time for the effort, seek to bring people higher, not lower.
Views On Romantic Relationships
Part of the manosphere encourages men to fulfill their “obligations” and care and provide for women and families.
That works in more traditional, non-Western areas.
But the Red Pill is mostly a Western movement.
And they reject that.
That’s the path carved by society and it doesn’t work anymore with feminists, easy sex for women and, of course, divorce law stacked against men.
I partially agree with the Red Pill here. Except that Red Pill philosophy just can’t seem to fathom there can be such a thing as a happy relationship.
Red Pill Mindset: Relationships Are Way Too Dangerous
Remember that the Red Pill sees:
- Intergender relationships as a tug war
- Women as inherently wicked and manipulative
- The playing field stacked for women to win
So relationships for the Red Pill are naturally hard.
Navigating relationships is not about synergy, chemistry and a team working together.
It’s all about him -and his alphaness-.
He must remain alpha at all times, never “break frame”, show power over the woman and keep her in check via “dread game”.
Indeed, even if they want a relationship, it’s difficult developing one for men schooled in Red Pill philosophy.
The whole Red Pill philosophy stands in contrast to successful relationships.
Because assholes, bad boys and dark triad manipulators can pick up women, but they can hardly form good relationships and can hardly hold on to a high quality woman.
High quality women have higher self-respect and more options, and they’re more likely to bite the bullet and pull the plug, even if they’re still hooked.
But it’s easier to keep hooked women with self-esteem issues.
Which is why some men seek to decrease her self-esteem by lowering her value.
That makes the men feel more in control and decreases the chances she’ll leave or cheat.
You can see it in action in “combative relationships“, or take a look at this example:
Red Pill-schooled relationships are toxic because they are built around his fears.
Red Pill Relationships and Ego-Threat
A woman leaving someone for another man is a big blow for anyone.
But it’s particularly destructive for Red Pill men.
For Red Pill men, that would mean that they found “someone more alpha”. Which, in turn, means “they are not alpha enough”.
And since all their ego is built around “being alpha”, they fold like a castle of cards.
See an example here:
See the pattern?
These are all different manifestations of the same fear: that there is someone more alpha out there.
The Folding Alpha: One Example
BTW, I dated a girl once who left her former boyfriend for me.
This genius loved to go old-school alpha male on her with things like “shut up woman”, “go to the kitchen woman”, etc.
The girl once took a cigarette from her friend and went to puff one. He took it from her lips and threw it away in front of everyone because he “wouldn’t allow her a single puff”.
When she left him, he went into a tailspin.
On top of the typical promise of beating the new boyfriend up, he also cut himself.
And please note that I am saying this while I actually felt for the guy. But it says a lot about the “strength” behind “alpha male controlling behavior”.
Post-Red Pill Mindset: Win-Win Is Possible, So It’s Either Win-Win Or Nothing
High quality leaders know a few truths about relationships:
- Understanding women is crucial for relationships
- Picking the right woman is crucial for relationships
- A focus on oneself must find a corresponding focus on team-effort
- Relationships, like good negotiations, entail accepting influence as well
Not all high quality men must want or settle in a relationship, of course.
But if they do, they screen their partner hard and aim for win-win.
From the get-go of dating, they like to see win-win mutual investment. They give, but with the expectation of receiving the same back.
And if they don’t see anything coming back, they are happy to cut ties.
They know people can slip and while they always leave the door open for possible cheating or future breakup, they don’t stress about it.
And they know that, if they picked a good partner, a good chunk of what happens is within their control.
They tend to be leaders of their relationships, of course.
But it happens naturally and, most of all, it’s not confrontational leadership because women are happy to elect high quality men as their leaders.
This is what my girlfriend sent me during our relationship:
Those are not the messages that assholes tend to receive.
And these are the messages that ex girlfriends send to men who are positive leaders:
This was years after we ended. But positive leaders are rare, and women often miss them.
Attitudes Towards The PC-World
The Red Pill holds views that that either run contrary to what the larger society embraces, or which are difficult to share and talk openly about.
The same is true for high quality leaders.
However, they have very different attitudes towards the gap between their beliefs and society’s beliefs.
Red Pill Mindset: I Can’t Believe How Stupid And Gullible People Are!
Red Pill men spent vast amounts of time and effort reading, sharing and commenting on what their nemesis are doing.
They like to attack, ridicule or laugh at feminists, liberals, blue pill men or society.
The ridiculing serves to make them feel better about themselves to strengthen the group and, partially, for social climbing (ie.: “look at me how better than those idiots”).
There is nothing wrong with analyzing others and, sometimes, a bit of venting and ranting is also OK and might even be therapeutic (I did in this post on Scandinavian bathrooms).
But it shouldn’t take too much of your time.
Post-Red Pill Mindset: It Is What It Is, I Don’t Want to Change Everyone’s Mind
High quality men are too busy with their lives to get lost in discussions of “how things ought to be”.
If there are a lot of feminists these days in the west, that’s how it is.
They might be curious as to why more women are feminists today, but they will not waste time complaining about it.
Post-Red Pill men think that if you waste too much time talking and discussing the turkeys, you tend to become more like the turkeys.
And they prefer soaring with the eagles.
Personal political orientation will tell you a lot about people.
Red Pill Mindset: Long Live The Strong Man
Red Pill members long for the strong man.
That’s because a large portion of red pillers belong to the authoritarian subset of politicla conservatism, which focuses on hierarachy and obedience (Sapolsky, 2018).
The strong man, of course, reminds them more of the dream end game of alpha-maleness.
The strong alpha male seeks to centralize power, silence the competition, reward other alpha males and punish the weak. That’s seem fair to most red piller because, as Miller and Kanazawa point out (Miller & Kanazawa, 2008) conservatives are mor elikely to fall for the naturalistic fallacy -ie.: what’s natural is good-.
So Putin, a known kleptocrat, is a true alpha male, while Obama was a weak ass feminized man.
Obama also gave the Red Pill more ammo to complain about the “declining West” and fawn upon foreign lands where societies (apparently) still respect “true men”.
That’s why a good chunk of the Red Pill is happier with the new American strong man, Donald Trump.
As a matter of fact, the Red Pill officially endorsed Trump:
There was disagreement here, but the post was still upvoted by 82% of Reddit users.
I can see these dynamics with my own readership.
Yours truly gets quite a few critical messages whenever he criticized Trump:
As we’ve mentioned, there is a strong overlap between Red Pill beliefs of “alphaness”, “power” and “control” and what Adorno referred to as “Authoritarian Personality” (Adorno, 1950) and what Lakoff calls “strict father morality” (Lakoff, 2008).
The red pill, albeit it presents itself as an apolitical movement, is actually naturally authoritarian, and leaning towards conservatism.
Post-Red Pill Men: Strong Men Can Either Be Much Better Or Much Worse
High quality men can be liberal or conservatives.
They might be against immigration, wanting to keep their guns, or prefer low taxation because they’re rich (for the record, I am against “open doors” immigration policies, would like to own a couple of guns, and prefer low taxation).
But they seldom fall for the allure of the strong man.
Feedback From The World
How the world sees you does not define you.
But it can provide an important feedback.
Red Pill Mindset: They See Us As Misogynists Because They’re Not Red-Pill, Their Opinion Doesn’t Count
Most non-Red Pill people tend to agree the Red Pill is misogynist.
The Red Pill says that it’s the blue pill world only that says that. But to paraphrase what someone said:
When everyone thinks you’re a misogynist, it’s either everyone’s wrong and women truly are terrible, or you’re actually a misogynist.
The final answer is up to you, but one should always consider the possibility of being wrong.
Post-Red Pill Men: If People Bring Good Arguments or If 80% Agree On Something, I’ll Truly Ponder That Feedback
Since post-Red Pill men purged are not angry nearly as angry, they are more acceptable across the board.
Still, they get some flack from the extremists, since they’re not extremists (anymore).
But that’s a good sign.
Usually, you want to see some angry comments from both sides:
And from those more extreme in the manosphere side:
Here’s my rule of thumb:
If you’re discussing sensitive topics and you’re not getting some flack from both sides, you’re either playing it too safe, or you’re an extremist yourself.
However, on average, you get respect from the moderates on both sides:
Now comes the fun part.
Time to test yourself.
Look at this video and think of how you would react:
Here is how our two archetypes of men would react:
Red Pill: That’s An Alpha
Well done, she had it coming.
He chased in the beginning and that was beta and blue pill.
But when she enforced the rules, that was truly dominant alpha.
And she will go back to him because he’s alpha.
High-Quality Man: That’s Some F*cked Up Relationship
What a toxic dynamic.
He seems like a high quality man, what the hell is he doing with that drama queen?
The Stages of Moving Beyond TRP
- Denial – What a bunch of hating mysoginists, this ain’t real
- Anger – This can’t be real, but some of it makes sense… Women and society have truly taken me for a ride!
- Deep Diving – OK, let’s see what else makes sense and how I an use it
- Depression – Damn, the world truly runs on self-interest
- Self-identification – I’m a REd Pill man, and feel superior to others because of it
- First Post-TRP Awareness – Wait, I am become angrier and more bitter. That’s not good. Is there something else is available?
- Post Red Pill – There are exceptions to the general rules, society and women are complex, and win-win are possible
Only non-authoritarian conservatives will reach 6 and 7.
The authoritarian conservatives are more likely to remain in the red pill.
Be Like Water
Being Red Pill, by definition, is self-identification.
Once you belong and identify with a group, your reality is almost automatically distorted.
The Red Pill reality, even moderate Red Pillers, is tinged and filtered through the colors of the group.
I invite you instead not to define yourself with anything at all.
Imagine there is no countries, sang John Lennon.
No group to conform to, no nationality to die for, no gender to defend from.
That’s somewhat a scarier place because it demands a high tolerance for uncertainty.
But it’s a freeing place.
I never define myself.
I don’t even like adjectives. Sometimes people tell me I’m “confident”, as in these feedback from a speech I gave:
5 years ago, I would have thought “awesome”.
Today, I’m getting closer and closer, finally, to thinking absolutely nothing of it.
Today I willingly avoid taking ownership of any adjective or definition.
“Confidence” does not define me.
I know that sometimes I can be confident and sometimes I can be scared shitless.
And I’m totally cool with both.
There is power in refusing definition.
No ego equals no target and full control.
Bruce Lee said it first, Robert Greene made it one of the laws of power:
Be like water, my friends.